End of the line for Holden

[ACademic]

What I find ironic about this news is that it was actually Holden that kept alive the GM-based V8-rear wheel drive "sedan" platform for the U.S. market when Chevrolet/Pontiac were still toying with other ideas. The GTO was largely a Holden offspring. Same can be said for the 2014 SS Sedan. I hope that Australia gets the Corvette/Camaro line-up...you earned it.

[bret a ewing]

Originally Posted by damage

Seems everyone's in agreement that the unions are the sole root of the problem.

You bet! And speaking of big business if Enron would have "disbanded" their union employees, it would not have failed.

[OZCOBRA]

Why the big surprise the decision was made over 6 years ago!!!😳😣😳
... And nobody listened... Ah that will never happen they said!!!
They all saw the new VF in development and that was seen as a start to a new chapter!!
The government here should have followed the lead of the US they prop up the industry by becoming stake holders in the companies.. You want money we'll buy part of your company!!
Certainly a better way of controlling where your money goes and better than pi$$in money against a wall!...like our spineless soft c0ck politically correct MPs do !!
#justsayin

[OZCOBRA]

................

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by Jethrow

One always have to grin to see a post that begins like this and then proceeds to state a whole lot of made up "facts".

You want facts? OK.

Right now, the base wage, before any allowances, shift loadings, etc etc stands in the range $60,000 to $80,000. This according to Holden's Enterprise Agreement. And there are many loadings on top of this, such as the very recent "hardship payment" of $3750 which was given to each worker.

The equivalent award wage is in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. So off the bat Holden are paying twice the award. And by the time you do add in all the allowances, the extra leave, etc etc, it is more like three times the award.

And you must consider of course, GM (or any company for that matter) does not have to manufacture in this country. They can go anywhere. So why should they stay here? Or even say manufacture in the USA where they would face similar problems?

Oh yes, that is because the American AUW, wanting to keep the manufacturing in its country, agreed to cut their wages by half. Look it up. 6 years ago they took a positive step to keep the industry going. What did we do here?

All they are arguing about now is the size of the redundancy payments. Way to go lads.

But you were right on some points. Most of the subsidies did go on wages. We agree there. But it did not cover the whole wage bill, mostly went to correct for the amount of overpayment.

And what kind of business case is that? It only works if the government agrees to pay the excess wages, over award, mandated by the unions? It was OK when the unions own party was in power, but now it isn't.

So yes, I am happy to know some facts. I hope you learnt some too.

And I ain't your son.

Hey grinner,

None of my facts are made up.

Theres nothing to be learned from your dribble.

Go and put some oil on your dipstick, youre a dry well of knowledge.

Congratulate yourself on being in the 70% category.

[madt2007]

Well hopefully with no Australia car industry to 'protect' now that the import legislation will be amended to reflect such!

[Rog246]

IMO I think you're ALL missing the most important point to my mind.
I don't care either way which manufacture you do or don't support, but vehicle manufacturing is second only to aerospace engineering from the technical view point. Loose the ability to produce & manufacture such technology and our country is the biggest loser.
When our Govt decided to not support all facets Australian manufacturing in its purchasing policy more than 20+ years ago in favour of short sited fiscal savings, we started loosing our manufacturing base. The money saved then had to go back to industries that tried to survive not having big enough local markets. In a free market economy that's okay, BUT in reality, we don't have that here.
Both sides of politics are to blame here, along with the mongrels having no common sense what so ever !
Top that off with elected members having little to no experience in running a business and this is the result that we most likely deserve
Enough said.

[Rob. Smith]

The new import Mustang isn't too impressive either...looks like a mazda !

[sideshow]

Australia is becoming the dearest place to live in the world which doesn't help
Toyota has been outselling cars in the usa for many years
fuel goes up big cars don't sell
why the hell would u buy a new ve commodore when within afew months its worth half what you paid new
I used to work for diahatsu 2 decades ago and we didn't make much on selling cars
they were hoping the customers would bring their cars back for consistant servicing
and they did

these days when it costs anywhere from 100 bucks to 150 bucks an hour to service your car at a dealership depending if its holden or mazda or Honda or location and I found closer to city got super expensive for a service and now everyone is tight for money
no one is getting their cars serviced
even the local guys are stuggling as I know afew of them
I am always getting calls people begging for their cars to be fixed because the immoiliser has shat itself and I tell them could cost couple hundred up to 1000 then they cry and say
im a pensioner so theres not much u can do except tell them to take it to dealer because
I don't want to have the job blow out and then they winge where as the dealer will screw u from day one hehehe

anyway if the govt want to give me a hand out to keep my business running and me have a holiday then ill gladly vote to give holden a hand out hehehe

the late model jeeps should be very cheap as some are piss poor quality and made in mexico
I guess that explains it all

[sideshow]

also its not just holden closing down
a lot of small shops are closing down especially in the touristy areas
we went up tamborine mountain 3 weeks ago and more than 6 shops had closed down from afew months ago
unfortunately the govt doesn't have graphs or gives a fk about the small business shops

more people every day are getting poorer not richer and the dirty banks are reaming us because the govt is on their side

[bret a ewing]

Guys,

Personally, I love your cars and will miss them. Excellent quality and performance.

Best, Bret.

[spookypt]

As Rog suggests. Govt procurement policy changes 20 years ago was the deathnell. Aka The Free Trade Agreement.

The FTA's across the board is what has killed aussie manufacturing. Coupled with all the other stuff like unions and the political BS. They all must share some blame.

I do like what Lindsey Fox said yesterday though regarding the govt propping up holden.

To paraphrase.

"If you continually feed the lion at the zoo and then put him out into the wild he'll have forgotten how to hunt and simply just wait for someone to come and feed him. And if that doesn't happen he'll die."

Ironic the use of the lion analogy!

[dhs.buckley]

after working in both holden & ford engine plants as a contractor in the 90s i have seen the full force of the union at both plants, and lets just say laws dont seem to apply to unions when it comes to cutting paddlocks and danger tags of machines when it comes to blokes working without a union ticket, no ticket no work.
but it will come full circle when there is no workforce there is no point for a union.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

So good old GMH have basically had their entire workforce paid for by the australian taxpayer for the last 12 years, and they bleat on about how hard done by they are.

Most of the profits they have made have been sent back to head office, GM USA, to help prop up that bankrupt company and for those bosses to squander by their ineptitude.

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

I would suffice to say the real story is GM USA has spat the dummy when they have been told their pipeline of free money from me and you is going to be cut off, they have had it too good for too long. GM doesnt give two hoots about Australia.

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

So lets be clear,
Its got nothing to do with the unions son, but its got everything to do with the mismanagement of GM USA.
I wish i could have had my wages bill paid for all of my employees for the last 12 years by you and other taxpayers.

Tuesday, 10 December 2013 14:59

U.S. Treasury Sells Its GM Shares at a Loss, Claims Taxpayer Victory
Written by Bob Adelmann

Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew announced on Monday afternoon that his department had sold the remaining shares of GM that it acquired following the forced bankruptcy of the auto giant in 2009, and made the $10.5 billion loss sound like it was a victory:

The President’s leadership in responding to the financial crisis helped stabilize the auto industry and prevent another Great Depression. With the final sale of GM stock, this important chapter in our nation’s history is now closed.

The President understood that inaction could have cost the broader economy more than one million jobs, billions in lost personal savings, and significantly reduced economic production.

They should have been forced out of existence in 2008 along with GE, Citi, Chase Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America and Wells Fargo. One of the largest transfers of debt to U.S. citizenry - at the end of a gun.

I would not drive one of their vehicles if it were given to me.

[darkside]

if you think about it ,maybe Australia would be a different country if we had our own steel mills instead of sending our iron overseas and then buying it back this type of thing has been our downfall for years,we seem to be a liquidation shop in the form of a country,sold of just about every asset we had including ports ,who the hell sells a port then we buy outdated technology at overinflated prices..the whole thing is bad...well what happens when there is nothing left,...doc

[spookypt]

Originally Posted by darkside

if you think about it ,maybe Australia would be a different country if we had our own steel mills instead of sending our iron overseas and then buying it back this type of thing has been our downfall for years,we seem to be a liquidation shop in the form of a country,sold of just about every asset we had including ports ,who the hell sells a port then we buy outdated technology at overinflated prices..the whole thing is bad...well what happens when there is nothing left,...doc

My pop is 95 and a WW2 Vet. He was in the infantry in Darwin (he was in charge of the trucks that pulled the gun transport) and on the way to PNG's Kakoda when Darwin was bombed. He reminds me often how when Japan bombed us in Darwin he dived under a Chev army truck and when he rolled out the bomb shrapnel that had been dropped on us still had "BHP" stamped on it!

We sold it to Japan pre WW2 and they sent it back to us on the back of some TNT!

(Just as a side note, my pop got called up, loaded and then told to get off the transport ships on the way to PNG 4 times. In the end he never got there. I can't even imagine the anxiety that he must have experienced with wife and 3kids at home. Tuff old bastard!)


Back on topic.....

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by spookypt

My pop is 95 and a WW2 Vet. He was in the infantry in Darwin (he was in charge of the trucks that pulled the gun transport) and on the way to PNG's Kakoda when Darwin was bombed. He reminds me often how when Japan bombed us in Darwin he dived under a Chev army truck and when he rolled out the bomb shrapnel that had been dropped on us still had "BHP" stamped on it!

We sold it to Japan pre WW2 and they sent it back to us on the back of some TNT!

(Just as a side note, my pop got called up, loaded and then told to get off the transport ships on the way to PNG 4 times. In the end he never got there. I can't even imagine the anxiety that he must have experienced with wife and 3kids at home. Tuff old bastard!)


Back on topic.....

That was organized by one of the most useless liberal prime ministers this country has ever had,

PIG IRON BOB MENZIES,
thats how he got his nickname.
Little johnny howards hero.

My dad was in the Air Force in PNG, never spoke about it.

[WKB]

Originally Posted by sideshow

the late model jeeps should be very cheap as some are piss poor quality and made in mexico

Sideshow,
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I think Tomcat's opening line in post 16 says it all.

Jeep have assembly plants in Jefferson (Michigan), Toledo (Ohio) and Belvidere (Illinois). I think if you look at a map you will find these areas are in the USA.

Back to the topic.

As well as GM shutting down, this will put pressure on component manufacturers, which in turn could effect Toyota. More than likely by the end of 2017 there won't be any auto manufacturing left in Australia, component manufacturers will have shut down or moved off shore. This will have devastating effect on the economies in Victoria and South Australia. It will be anyone's guess how many jobs will be affected when this does happen.

Although it was 100 jobs lost, it is interesting that the media did not give much time on the Kellogs cereal packaging plant shutting down in Australia and moving to Thailand.
I suppose there would not have been the same sensationalism as shutting down of the production of the perceived "Australia's" own car.

Unless GM are willing to put a 4cyl in the Camaro or Corvette and make them available to England and Europe like Ford did with the Mustang they are not going to spend a lot of money developing a RHD version for a niche market like Australia selling maybe 100 per month.

Warren

[WACR]

Aside from manufacturing a product which the customer wants to buy, high wages can be competitive provided productivity is high enough to justify them. I constantly hear our productivity is falling behind the rest of the world, that may be correct, but we will never learn to improve this, unless we understand how we compare and how we can improve.Generalised statements are always vague, I am sure specific productivity comparisons are available to those in the know in each industry, and more importantly the detail of the productivity work practices. If the Japanese are much more productive at manufacturing a car, then it should not be rocket science for the industry to explain how they achieve this. If its down to work procedures and processes and not a significant wage disparity, then what have we failed to learn or copy in Australia? Ford , GM and significantly Toyota must have bucket loads of data which they will have tried to replicate in Australia, but to no avail perhaps. Maybe its as simple as economies of scale? Comparing apples with apples and this is important, we dont want to compare building a hyundia to a Ferrari, what are the production line personnel in Japan, Korea , USA doing differently in their working day to us in Australia?

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

They should have been forced out of existence in 2008 along with GE, Citi, Chase Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America and Wells Fargo. One of the largest transfers of debt to U.S. citizenry - at the end of a gun.

I would not drive one of their vehicles if it were given to me.

Thank You ERA 276,
Herein lies the real facts about GMH folding, go back and read your quote you posted up about the last 10.5 billion in shares being sold by the US Govt last monday.

There is no more money coming from the american taxpayer to prop up GM USA who are in serious trouble.

Wednesday morning in Australia, GMH announces its closure.

You dont have to be einstein to work that one out.

I knew this had happened, but this info is not readily published in any australian media, they like to keep everyone downunder dumbed down so the 70%s blame the unions etc.

This company has been surviving worldwide on taxpayers handouts by bribing governments, while their CEOS have been flying around the world in their private jets.

Another Fact,
When the american car industry fell in a heap in 2008 under Bushs watch, Barack Obama in 2009 called in the heads of the big three car companies, the CEO of GM flew into Washington DC in his BIG ostentacious jet and Obama was not amused, such a display of greedy arrogance for a company in deep trouble was not going to be tolerated.
He called for his head, and he got it, the CEO was sacked and im pretty sure all the board resigned.
Total ineptude at the top of the company.

Thats whats wrong with this world, all corporate debt is being transfered to the citizens of countries by conservative governments, thats the real story of what happened in Greece and Spain.

But you wont read anything about that in Murdocks newspapers or on ****tell