End of the line for Holden

[Jethrow]

And as a further development, there is talk of ditching the Holden name as well, replacing it with Chevrolet ...

see GM Looking To Shutter Holden, Re-Brand As Chevrolet After 2017 | The Truth About Cars

[Rog246]

Originally Posted by Jethrow

And as a further development, there is talk of ditching the Holden name as well, replacing it with Chevrolet ...

see GM Looking To Shutter Holden, Re-Brand As Chevrolet After 2017 | The Truth About Cars

I can see it now, all them Chevys having their badges ripped orf and 'olden badges been stuck on 'em !!

[d488y2]

Interesting News, I wonder if people will pull the Chev badge off and replace it with Holden?

[albanycobra]

Finally i can buy a Vette.

[joyridin']

Sorry guys, this is really not a union issue. It is happening everywhere in the world in just about every industry. The taxpayer is being used as a cash cow to fund these large companies through what is basically extortion.

The Jeep plant in Toledo was given $50 million to stay there through the city and state. GM's automatic transmission plant was given millions upon millions to move to Toledo. They built a state-of-the-art facility and although the state thought they were going to make all the money back in taxes, it hasn't happened. They automated almost everything to the point there are few actual jobs left.

The race is on to find the country with the lowest average cost. China was winning, but running a business there is so corrupt, an actual stand-up company cannot do anything.

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Sorry guys, this is really not a union issue. It is happening everywhere in the world in just about every industry. The taxpayer is being used as a cash cow to fund these large companies through what is basically extortion.

This is an OUTRAGEOUS statement!

Sincerely,

Professional Sports Teams Looking to Build a New Stadium

[OZCOBRA]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

The race is on to find the country with the lowest average cost.

Hello world my name is FIJI!!!!

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by OZCOBRA

Hello world my name is FIJI!!!!

There was some country's name on a pair of Nike shoes the other day I had never heard of! Lesotho. Had to look it up. I guess I am not up on the African countries.

[MRGEORGE077]

I would buy a Ford any day over a Gov. motors car.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

Thank You ERA 276

My pleasure - I forgot Chrysler - we essentially paid Fiat $1.2b to take it.

[ERA2076]

perhaps more

American taxpayers have already spent more than $13 billion bailing out Chrysler. The Obama administration already forgave more than $4 billion of that debt when the company filed for bankruptcy in 2009. Taxpayers are never getting that money back. But how is Chrysler now paying off the rest of the $7.6 billion they owe the Treasury Department?

The Obama administration’s bailout agreement with Fiat gave the Italian car company a “Incremental Call Option” that allows it to buy up to 16% of Chrysler stock at a reduced price. But in order to exercise the option, Fiat had to first pay back at least $3.5 billion of its loan to the Treasury Department. But Fiat was having trouble getting private banks to lend it the money. Enter Obama Energy Secretary Steven Chu who has signaled that he will approve a fuel-efficient vehicle loan to Chrysler for … wait for it … $3.5 billion.

The fake Chrysler loan payoff « Hot Air

[Rog246]

What !??! WTF
All this in a free market economy
And you won't cough up for a decent medicare system for everyone ?
Would that be because the free market capitalists have spent ALL your money ?
Is it the 3rd or 4th time GM has been bailed out ? And God only knows about Chrysler
How do share holders put up with that and with CEO's getting not big bucks, but MASSIVE $'s ?
What I truly don't understand is that CEO's get paid squillions and are really only responsible to maybe 100,000 shareholders and the country's CEO (El Presidento !) who is responsible to hundreds of millions of people, gets a pittance in comparison Where exactly is the logic in that ?
As a quick aside wonder if the CEO's got paid a performance bonus by getting Gov't to bail them out ?
Jeez I'm a cynical bastard

[tomcat racing]

Finally a few people reading this forum, might be starting to wake up about the capitalist system and politics, and what really happens by these mega corporations with no ethics.

General motors and holden have been at the apex of this greed.

Personally i have never supported their product because of their ethics.
I feel sorry for the workers and the supporters of that brand who have been bull****ted to for decades.

Thats why i jumped in on this thread when ignorant people post up illinformed views as to why holden folded.

For the record,
I have never been a member of any political party.
I have never been a member of any union.
I have run my own company for 30 years employing many workers and numerous subcontractors.

You wont get to the truth of any story by listening to the commercial media, its not in their interests.
Thats why society is full of people that dont know that they dont know,
conservative governments love em.

[damage]

I'd love a tax break in my business, sure would make a change from the countless number of audits in the last 20 years

[Jethrow]

Geez tomcat, ranting loud and long about capitalism does not make you right, it just makes you seem like an ignorant commie. And you need a new category for your tag, the 1% of people who think they know, but actually DON'T.

Lets make one thing clear. The bailouts, and large sums of money being handed over to companies like GM is NOT capitalism. The response (to stop the handouts) recently offered by the Libs is. In a free market capitalist system, businesses need to sink or swim on their own, with the market deciding (by buying or not buying its goods) if it has merit.

The underlying statist intervention, by usually lefty governments, think ALP, think Obama, where they seek to distort the market mechanisms by providing subsidies is not free market thinking.

Unfortunately where we think of the USA or even Australia as being a capitalist system, the fact is it isn't. It tries, but it is constantly distorted by governments, whose centrist ideals are at complete odds with the free market system.

And the car industry is an excellent example of this. In Australia, we have heard about how the car industry has been given grants for years and years. But think about that. Where does that fit in with capitalism? It might seem a good idea, and perhaps as a one off quick fix it could have value. But to do it at all, it just distorts the economics.

It actually changes the dynamics of the car industry to become an industry that now relies on the subsidies, with the businesses chasing the easy money. But why wouldn't they? One thing that is a feature of the free market system is that it can react quickly to change. And here the change is free money, so it gets exploited. And this is even better, for in this case, some of the exploitation was done by the union, thinking, hey, if there is free money, we will have some too.

So what started out as the government thinking it was a good idea, turned out it actually wasn't. And I agree that governments of all sides can do this. Governments need to understand that the best way to manage a capital system is to not try and control it, to not intervene in it.

Sure they can tax it, skim some off the top, etc etc, but they would do better to not get in the way. Lets face it, and I said this before. Governments do not create wealth. Never have, never will. Not in their DNA. It is enterprising people, people with some drive and go, cobra people, who create wealth, and there is no better way to do it than in a capitalist society.

Hell, history has shown this to be true over and over and over. Nothing else comes close. And the fact is, what we have here, despite the government meddling still does a pretty good job.

Good enough I am sure tomcat, to allow your business to do well for you and your employees.

If you look under virtually all financial crisis's of the sort we are hearing a bit too frequently about, of the sort we blame capitalism for, dig deeper, and you will see where government intervention has forced some market distortion somewhere along the way. And the problem with this is, is it usually leads to a market failure.

PS

I am also not a member of any political party. I have owned my own business and worked for others. I am pro a free market economy. I try not to let belief distort facts.

[byroncobra]

Governments do not create wealth. Never have, never will. Not in their DNA.

Unless you happen to be a NSW Labor Party MP with no interest what so ever in mining coal
or selling milkshakes at Circular Quay..........

[Tonus72]

Anyone want to talk about religion's influence on the closure of Holden?



My only concern is where I am going to get my LS3 from when the time comes...

I am so shallow

[Rog246]

WELL we've covered politics, and now religion has just raised its fugly head, so now its got to time for SEX !

I'll start this with.......

' Did you hear about the bloke who stepped into the lift & stood beside the stunningly attractive lady ?'
Lift doors closed and after a bit he turns to her & says " Can I smell your Fanny?"
She gives him the once over & slaps his face as hard as she can (apparently he's not her type !! LOL)
' I'll take that for a no then. It must be you feet!'

[sideshow]

I heard most of the top employees on the big bucks at holden were part of hillsong so 20% of all the wages went to hillsong so that is why the govt had to bail them out and
prop back up their wages hehehehehe

is this a good religious story?

[ERA2076]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."

Benito Mussolini, Fascist dictator of Italy

"Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism'. I'm afraid, based on my own long experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

Sen. Huey Long

"Fascism is capitalism in decay."

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

- Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism -

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Dr. Lawrence Britt

I am a free market capitalist and proud of it. One takes substantial financial risk and either wins or loses.

When you lose you do not win.

chr