Kirkhams in Australia

[750hp]

All this Kirkham talk has me thinking how much I'd love a brushed 289 FIA Kirkham with a healthy high revving, high compression small block and a straight cut, dog geared trans....

[soulman]

Guys,

So a new Kirkham registered in Australia has to be titled as an "ICV "or can it

be titled as a " Kirkham" ? built to current ICV ?


Soul.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by soulman

Guys,

So a new Kirkham registered in Australia has to be titled as an "ICV "or can it

be titled as a " Kirkham" ? built to current ICV ?


Soul.

I have a stupid question if I may... What's the difference?

[leroy17]

OK... i know that the polished Kirkams look awesome... no question.

However..... the brushed finish (as above) with some blackout 'bits' is just so badass!

289 or SC..... just B A D A S S !

[soulman]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I have a stupid question if I may... What's the difference?

Perhaps my ignorance but...

when you import a partially built Kirkham from the States to Australia is it not described as a Kirkham ? or is it described as something else ?

or does it just come in as "parts" and you start from zero ?

Personally i would not want to lose that Kirkham identity in Australia , especially when it came to registration and Insurance , being a recognized manufacturer as opposed to being an ICV build and given that SAAC recognize them [ not that it matters to me ] with Insurance companies at least you could then justify the exact cost of replacement value and justify your cover.


Just wondering !

Soul.

[Towmaster]

Originally Posted by damage

On another note it's good to see that Kirkham are making their cars with all the extra electrical circuits in their harness right from the factory.

Certainly makes it easier when your completing the build to not have to pull the harness back out just to add a couple of wires.

Kirkham don't seem to have any issues going the extra mile to help out and even better don't charge the world.

Did you order yours to suit the injected Cammer etc or is it a standard wiring package?
Just wondering cause the one I saw getting rewired didn't have any relays in it or wiring for fuel injection, immobiliser etc.
They must have different packages for fuel injection and carby cars? I am guessing most of the American delivered ones would have an authentic look carby? Electric fuel pumps etc?

[Towmaster]

Originally Posted by soulman

Perhaps my ignorance but...

when you import a partially built Kirkham from the States to Australia is it not described as a Kirkham ? or is it described as something else ?

or does it just come in as "parts" and you start from zero ?

Personally i would not want to lose that Kirkham identity in Australia , especially when it came to registration and Insurance , being a recognized manufacturer as opposed to being an ICV build and given that SAAC recognize them [ not that it matters to me ] with Insurance companies at least you could then justify the exact cost of replacement value and justify your cover.


Just wondering !

Soul.

I think the issue is you can't import a whole car unless you have owned and registered / driven / used it overseas for 3 consecutive months....... but you can import car parts. I think that is the way they have to be bought in, as parts and then assembled here. Which costs more because it has to be manufactured in Poland / America then pulled apart and then put back together again in Australia. It can only be registered as an Individually Constructed Vehicle, because that's what they all are, regardless of the make of the kit. What you put on your registration label is up to you. Coupe, Roadster, Convertible, Cobra, Shelby, all depends on what you tell the admin at the Transport Department.

[spookypt]

While not a Kirkham specific, I do know back in 2008/2009 cars were coming in under the "built before Jan 1989 rule". That RCR GT40- Blue Orange did and is registered as a 66 or whatever.

For example for those of you who know my car....my import approval certifies that it came in under this same rule - Pre Jan 89. So my left hooker, providing I changed to compliant lights, noise, belts (and a few other "small" items) could also be street registered. Yep, 351 dry sumped carbd smokey Windsor with some effort could technically now be street registered. That said the bar work could be hard to comply.

My import papers show that its a "1965 Cobra" with vin attached built before Jan 1989.

Yeow....Ash maybe race cars just got more valuable?????? ha!

[Towmaster]

I thought that loop hole had been closed?

[spookypt]

You certainly can't do that now. But for cars that have come in with the appropriate compliant documentation it can be done. In fact, I went to QLD transport to confirm my Vin as per my import certification and it was already in their system....so all I'd need to do the necessary changes to meet engineering for a pre 89 vehicle and I'm done.

Its all in the import approval compliance documents. And now, the only way you can do it is you must prove your car is actually older than 30 years like Craig's or Don's. Mine is of course a 65 in case that's your next question!!!

[Paintwerks]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

I think the issue is you can't import a whole car unless you have owned and registered / driven / used it overseas for 3 consecutive months....... but you can import car parts.

To bring in a vehicle of any age from a foreign country, you need to have owned the vehicle for a minimum of 12 consecutive months and also have lived abroad in the same country the vehicle is located in (at minimum) for the same period of time you've owned the car. You cannot buy the car, leave the country and then apply one year later to import it. And you still need to apply to DOTARS for import approval and this must be approved before you can import the car to Australia. This is called a 'Personal Import' and the registration/compliance standards are much lower.

I successfully bought a motorcycle over from America under this scheme.

You can also bring in a (classic) vehicle older than 25 years of age providing you have applied for, and received import approval from DOTARS. You do not need to have owned the car for a minimum period and you need never have even visited (let alone lived in) the country you are exporting it from. As with the personal import, you need DOTARS approval before you can import the vehicle. There's nothing stopping you from buying the car before applying, but in addition to having to store the car while you are waiting for import approval, IF the approval is denied, then you are left with the sale (or costs for disposal) of the car in the foreign country.

[spookypt]

Yep, to think once upon a time you could just say I want to bring in a 1965 Cobra and woopee....import approval granted.

The "loophole" got squashed when the AUD went to 90c + to the USD and DOTARS got smashed with a heap of IAD (import approval doc) applications and worked out what was happening.

Some got through...I know of one car that was in transit and likely to be sent back as the owner didn't seek approval prior to shipping and the rules changed mid shipping.. Luckily, it was actually pre 89 and he got through...but it was touch and go for quite a while!

[Dimis]

Or SEVS

Specialist and enthusiast vehicle scheme.

BDR is already on the list.
Kirkhams should still qualify... they did when I inquired a few years back.

Just remember - Importing is has NOTHING to do with registering.
They are 2 separate processes.

Enjoy...

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

There's nothing stopping you from buying the car before applying, but in addition to having to store the car while you are waiting for import approval, IF the approval is denied, then you are left with the sale (or costs for disposal) of the car in the foreign country.

The problem is that rather than "nothing stopping you from buying the car before applying", it's actually a requirement. When submitting your application for approval to import a car, you need to show proof of ownership. It makes it a bit of a risk for Cobras and hot rods because it can be very tough to prove that a car was registered pre-89 (and even more so to prove 30+ years old to allow LHD rego at least in Qld). If your application is knocked back, you're out of luck...
On the other hand it is very easy to prove for example that a 68 Chevelle is a 1968 model because it has come from a recognised manufacturer. The main risk with bringing in old Fords and Chevs is ensuring that they aren't sufficiently modified as to require ICV registration. They're cracking down hard on this, but that's another story.

[damage]

Sorry have to disagree with a lot of what's been said here. Even though I'm not an expert I'll add my 2 cents.

You can buy a foreign car and bring it in to the country PROVIDED you get Federal approval.

There is a fairly lengthy approval process to go through if the car isn't on an approved import list. Such as proving the car is a volume manufactured item which is just supply specs and marketing brochure etc etc.

There is one or two approved Cobra manufacturers on this Federal approved list.

I bought in an F150 Raptor in 2012 Ford F150's were already on the approved car list so importation stipulations were car had to be brand new. (Converted it compliance etc once here)

I bought my Kirkham as a complete vehicle WITH the cammer. I had already started going down the import route when I was introduced to AP (by Kirkham)

AP suggested I break the car into parts Kirkham built the car and fitted everything to it and then disassembled to send it to Australia ( no charge by Kirkham for disassembly)

If I had to do this again I would go the full construction imported into Australia because if the car is manufactured with the engine in it the compliance is a lot easier the as an ICV. (So I am told more recently by other people that have more experience then me)

The requirement to have owned the car driven lived there etc is for personal imports that's a totally different situation that I don't know a great deal about.

[750hp]

I only know about the pre-89 requirements (which I have used on a handful of occasions to bring in a few Cobras and old Chevs and even a b@stard-child V8 Austin Healey) so I can't pretend to know anything about the process to import a new (or post-89) car.

damage, wouldn't Kirkham have to be identified as a production vehicle manufacturer to allow them to be imported new as complete cars? I thought that was the whole sticking point with US Cobra manufacturers - that they can only ever sell a car with an MSO; never a VIN/title because they are not production vehicle manufacturers. I thought that's why the concept of a "turn-key minus" was born.

[sambo]

Sounds a bit like the JDM scheme where Aussie workshops import Skylines and Silvias from Japan, minimal work for compliance (being RHD) and sell them onto the domestic market - usually with higher spec than the locally released model. Would a company like Kirkham ever be able to sell cars here like Nissan? Dream on!

[damage]

I stopped short on my import adventure but from all the literature I read the Feds just wanted brochures etc to show it was a production vehicle. To be honest I actually forget a lot of the requirements because I started all of that over 2 years ago now. All I do know is that I was told if the manufacturer wasn't on the list that approval process could take up to 12 weeks and no guarantee of approval.

Kirkham are capable of vin/titling but don't normally do it.

They sell the car as a completed vehicle the only option or custom component is the engine and how you finish the exterior.

It's actually custom to get the car dismantled to send it here and Kirkham don't provide a discount to send it as a kit which is what I originally enquired as my first list of questions.

[Dimis]

I'll try again to help...

SEVS - specialist vehicle entry scheme.
Specialist & Enthusiast Vehicle Scheme (SEVS)

Any car can be imported into the country as long as you have government approval.


FWIW:
The pre/post 89 rule exists to protect the industry... so as not to "compete" with current car manufacturers, models, and sales undercutting the industry and costing the country jobs.
IE. Bringing in skylines, Silvia, WRXes etc...

[Gav]

Why would a Kirkham be considered anything other than an ICV?
They are a high end cobra kit but they are built in relatively small numbers.
Since near on everyone that is built utilizes a different power train how could they ever be organised or treated as a low volume production car?