5.0L Cammer Build.

[alffie]

Have you looked at crankshaft rebuilders in Melbourne? They have been making all the supercar cranks for 20 odd years. Not cheap though! Scat will make a custom crank for around 4k also COME racing make billet cranks

[750hp]

Wow, sounds like a saga! I hope it has only cost you time, not money to get to this point with the crank.

Regarding the material, I wonder why the Aussie company would use a different material? Surely, of the other big $$$ brands one of them would offer the more expensive material if it was better. What grade are they suggesting?

[LJ47]

Originally Posted by alffie

Have you looked at crankshaft rebuilders in Melbourne? They have been making all the supercar cranks for 20 odd years. Not cheap though! Scat will make a custom crank for around 4k also COME racing make billet cranks

Did consider them they do fantastic work and their reputation is unquotable.

Craig
Regarding material everyone manufacturer has their preferred product.

So for an engine that is projected to make 320RWK at 7500rpm what to use.
Do I need a crank that is made out of titanium or cast steel.
Is the material the critical factor or is the balancing and end weight.
So after a bit of a think I have placed an order with Bryant Racing in the US crank made from billet 4340 Timken steel lightened knife edged and balanced 12 week lead time.
See how we go this time I guess.

[Chris L]

Better luck this time LJ.............
Cheers
Chris L

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by LJ47

Did consider them they do fantastic work and their reputation is unquotable.

Craig
Regarding material everyone manufacturer has their preferred product.

So for an engine that is projected to make 320RWK at 7500rpm what to use.
Do I need a crank that is made out of titanium or cast steel.
Is the material the critical factor or is the balancing and end weight.
So after a bit of a think I have placed an order with Bryant Racing in the US crank made from billet 4340 Timken steel lightened knife edged and balanced 12 week lead time.
See how we go this time I guess.

Bryant makes an excellent crank, LJ and if you can get it in 12 weeks that is not unreasonable. Check your steels again. I think you meant to say Timken 4330V. The Timken 4330V steel is decidedly tougher than the best 4340. Bryant can offer you either.

It is unfortunate what you had to go through. Why didn't you use the crank shop close by? There can be real advantages to proximity other than the lower cost compared to the imported crank. It sounds like the local crank shop had access to the Timken 4330V steel also.

Ed

[eschaider]

BTW LJ, with respect to the Daytona Prototype Engines (DPE) they had a conservative advertised power output of 520 FWHP. There appears to have been three versions of the engine, possibly more.

One version of the engine was the 'for public consumption story version' which was the 520 HP rated version. This is the engine virtually everyone thinks about when DPE discussions come up.

There was another version of the engine that was just called the sprint engine or sprint motor. It was the equivalent of what we might think of as a qualifying engine that was intended to be run for qualifying position at races and then be replaced with a race version. That I am aware of that engine never had a published power level but was estimated by some to approach the 600 HP level.

Finally there was the race version of the engine. The power output for this version was never publicized either but was obviously somewhere between the 520 and ~600HP versions of the engine. Whatever the actual power level was, it delivered a stunning victory at Daytona that year. It was reminiscent of LeMans when the GT40's came across the finish line in their now famous 1,2,3 formation.

Here is a link to the Roush-Yates website where they still have a page for the DP engine, click here =>DP Engine. As you might suspect by now, this thing is no shrinking violet. It does not produce the torque of a blown engine but it gives no quarter to any n/a competitors and in real terms far surpasses the power output of any Coyote engine to date, plus it is reliable.

In the FWIW category the Coyote engine is a great showroom alternative to provide impressive street power. At the races the TiVCT does not produce as great a benefit as it does on the street. Ford knew this and pressured the racing bodies in this country to produce either Coyote based racing classes /events or disallow the big bore 5.0L Modular Motor based cars from competing. Ford wanted a Coyote P/R story without the need to explain about those troubling big bore 5.0L ModMotor vehicles that for all the world looked like they performed the same or better.

To accelerate the transition to the Coyote platform FRPP has essentially removed any of the earlier Modular Motor performance parts from their catalog. When you consider they still offer performance parts for 50 year old FE engines, the obvious question is why? The answer is equally obvious.

BTW , because the story is not complimentary, there is little discussion of the fact the Coyote block is on its third or fourth (possibly more) revision for reliability reasons. Definitely something to consider if you are building a maximum effort version of one of these engines.

Ed

p.s. I don't know what you are using for cams but if you are still searching I know where there were some original Roush-Yates DPE cams. If you are interested I can PM the email address and contact info to you.

[RedEye]

I think this is really interesting. Always wondered about the SOHC type engines and gaining a high RMP range. I wish there were engines for the cobras that would hit 9-11K RPM. Please post photos as you build, would love to see them.

[LJ47]

HI Ed
Thank's for the info on the DPE engines.
This project started over 2 years ago when I had a long 5.4L modular built by another engine builder which failed. The engine wiring loom, induction, computer, drive by wire, etc was done by HTP and now they look after all my motor sport needs. HTP reinstalled my street 5.4L modular so I could still go to the Cobra nationals and it has not missed a beat with the mentioned system.
Dyno run below of 5.4L modular at 7500prm which made 410RWHP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjW...?v=2DjWCr10BDo
Two weeks later the engine failed at Philip Island race track.

We tried to buy a complete motor of Roush Yates but they could not supply the engine due to the mentioned issues with the Coyote replacement and had to stick with the Cammer.

So I decided to put the Cammer together myself with the guidance from HTP and it made sense to package the parts together and time frame was not to much of a concern until the crank was the only thing not supplied.

The heads are already built by Head Stud technology with cams from the 5.4L motor which failed they are ported with oversized valves.




Will keep you posted as the build progresses.

[LJ47]

Its been a while a little over 14 weeks.
Well for the last 2 weeks have tried to get an update on my crank ordered through MOD MAX in Florida which commissioned Bryant Racing to manufacture still no reply.
So I am getting that feeling again with dealing with this vendor lots of promises on service and supply no delivery.
It must be remembered this product was paid for a year ago in full. We are onto the second manufacture just to get 4.6 modular stock stroke billet crank.
Anyone else experience this problem with supply from the US.
Anyway still trying to stay positive even if l feel like I am hitting my head up against the wall.

[eschaider]

I genuinely believe you need to request your money back from ModMax, LJ. These deals rarely get better and frequently get much worse. ModMax has frequently had clouds of confusion and unhappiness that somehow attach themselves to their deals. It sounds like you living one of those deals right now.

Ask for a refund and go to Winberg Crankshaft. When Ford & Roush go racing with those engines, Winberg is the crankshaft inside. Here is their site => http://www.winbergcrankshafts.com They frequently have crankshafts in inventory in various stages of completion.

Email Randy Winberg (rswinberg@aol.com), tell him what you need and listen to what he suggests. I know it is an overseas call but sometimes a phone call can eliminate a lot of emails. In your email ask for a time to call him so you don't waste a call and take up your needs person to person. Randy is a real top shelf guy and easy to talk to. You do not need to deal with middle men like ModMax who continually jerk you around. You can and should go directly to the source.

Their crankshafts are easily the finest I have ever used and I have used billets for the last 42 years.


Ed

[spookypt]

LJ that's bloody painful! Sorry to hear. Its sooooo frustrating dealing OS. I have had similar problems. Not with the suppliers you note but others.

I generally find that if I ask more than the 1 question in an email the first gets answered but the others don't so I always try and ask the most important 1st! Alternatively I send multiple emails but often then only the first one gets answered. I had a girlfriend who was from the US and she did the same thing!

It seems a common theme with some US suppliers. I've had great success with companies like Willwood and Tirerack but diabolical with other very well known brands...

Even when it costs me more I still try to buy Oz. At least then I have the ability to send a bloke your size around to get answers for me!!! LOL

Sorry none of that helps much but I feel your PAIN!

PS. Rossco sent me your 944 Sandown race the other day. Great report and vid until they interviewed his ugly mug!

[LJ47]

HTP got onto Dale at MOD MAX Pro power this morning chasing my crank he gave HTP the same answer will contact Bryant Racing and look into it and get back to them tomorrow. Must be a standard answer he gives everyone. HTP then contacted Bryant Racing direct and they at this stage have on order from Mod Max, Pro Power in their system for the crank I require. Will be asking for a full refund tomorrow if the above information is true. Very disappointed as I feel that Mod Max and Dale have mislead me on this very expensive crank for over 1 year.

[stiffy]

LJ,

The Yanks are normally world leaders in communication with stuff like this.

Have you asked locally if there is an engine builder capable of completing the

build?

Or maybe you will have to change your options.........


STIFFY

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by LJ47

HTP got onto Dale at MOD MAX Pro power this morning chasing my crank he gave HTP the same answer will contact Bryant Racing and look into it and get back to them tomorrow. Must be a standard answer he gives everyone. HTP then contacted Bryant Racing direct and they at this stage have on order from Mod Max, Pro Power in their system for the crank I require. Will be asking for a full refund tomorrow if the above information is true. Very disappointed as I feel that Mod Max and Dale have mislead me on this very expensive crank for over 1 year.

Originally Posted by stiffy

LJ,

The Yanks are normally world leaders in communication with stuff like this.

Have you asked locally if there is an engine builder capable of completing the

build?

Or maybe you will have to change your options.........


STIFFY

I would get my money as quickly as possible LJ. You are at that tipping point where things are about to get much worse, very fast.

ModMax can be a good supplier and just as easily they can be a problem supplier and it is almost like the roll of the dice — you just don't know what is going to happen. At least if you get your money back the only thing you've lost is time (and I say that with regret).

I am sorry to see the BS you have experienced with these guys. While Stiffy's observation about our communication skills over here is usually correct we do have some bad apples. Whenever you can, try to deal directly with the principals, it is usually a better experience — unless of course it is a distributor like Finishline, Jegs or Summit. We seem to have spawned a new generation of retail operations over here, Internet empowered like ModMax, that can frequently be problematic.


Ed

[LJ47]

Hi Ed
I will be asking for a refund on this matter as I have lost trust in Mod Max as a supply for this part. Hope the refund goes smother than the promise on supply. I am in the US in September would hate to have to change my travel plans to become a debut collector.

[stiffy]

LJ,

If you need some extra muscle in the States let me know



Stiffy "the slugger" Smith

[Rog246]

What sort of muscle are you talking about Stiffy?
Slugger generally refers to ..........err.....umm........John Holmes' bits !!

[Rog246]

LJ47 I've used MMR for bits for my 5.4, and found them great to deal with. They do cranks etc as well. The blokes on the Ford forum have used them a lot with great success, so it might be worth your while talking to them as well.
Modular Motorsports Racing

[LJ47]

Hi Guys
Finally the 5.0L Cammer is getting put together updates are on the LJ Performance Sportscars face book page. I will post some photo's over the weekend.

[spookypt]

For those searching

https://www.facebook.com/pages/LJ-Pe...50748315200940