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 2Likes
03-19-2014, 05:52 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
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Not Ranked
Question for the Ford guys
Hey you blue oval guys, I have a question.
I am looking at purchasing a Ford Trader truck with tilt flat bed.
It currently has a Cleveland 351 fitted but the engine has been open to elements and water has entered intake and motor is seized.
I am looking for a more fuel economical engine option, and am wondering if the 5 litre as fitted to late model Falcons would fit?
The truck runs a manual gearbox and PTO for hydraulic drive for tilt and winch.
So i would like to keep the gearbox in place.
I am wondering if the Cleveland and late model Windsor share the same bell housing pattern, and same clutch/throwout specs as far as same clearances etc?
Or if there are suppliers who can supply appropriate adapters.
Cheers all.
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Cruising in 5th
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Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
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03-19-2014, 07:41 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edinburg,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrison, All aluminum small block ford.
Posts: 436
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Not Ranked
Pretty sure Cleveland is big block pattern. Google it to make sure. I never have been a fan of the Cleveland.
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" If it wont break em loose in 3rd gear, it aint enough power "
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03-19-2014, 07:45 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne,
vic
Cobra Make, Engine: Kenmer with Ford Quad Cam Boss 260
Posts: 981
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Not Ranked
Dave
I stand to be corrected 351C has motor mounts and bell housing pattern like a 302, 351W
should be the same 6 bolt pattern. Whichever flywheel you use it must match the balancer and the crank. Late model flywheels 157 Teeth (manual)
164T (auto). I think the bell housing to gearbox bolt patterns may also be the same
Doug
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03-19-2014, 07:54 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
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Not Ranked
Cheers all.
__________________
Cruising in 5th
---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
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03-19-2014, 09:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 5,391
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Wasn't there a Ford 302 that was "Australia only" though? I seem to remember reading that one time and it was different than the standard 302 bolt pattern.
I could be wrong though.
Larry
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Alba gu brąth
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03-19-2014, 11:10 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sunbury,
VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: Rat Rod Racer, LS1 & T56
Posts: 5,391
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Not Ranked
We got a 302 Cleveland which was a de-stroked version of the 351C. They run longer rods than the 351 and a smaller chambered head. They used to be popular parts for guys wanting build a long rod 351C or a high comp motor.
Cheers
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Mike Murphy
Melbourne Australia
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03-20-2014, 09:10 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sacramento,Ca.,
Ca.
Cobra Make, Engine: Midstates (2001)
Posts: 1,724
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here in america the 351c and the 351w are different, the351c has the same bell housing as the 429/460 and the 351w has the same bell housing as the 289/302.
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03-20-2014, 12:24 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SHERRILLS FORD,
NC
Cobra Make, Engine: Lone Star, 351-c
Posts: 269
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My 1972 vintage 351c has the 289,302, 351w bellhousing bolt pattern.
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CHRIS POTTER
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03-20-2014, 01:36 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tucson,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 5,391
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Copied from a Ford site online for bellhousing bolt patterns:
"SBF - 289/302/351W/351C - 1965-1994 - six bolt pattern".
Larry
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Alba gu brąth
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03-20-2014, 07:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
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Not Ranked
Cheers all, I have asked a few GT guys at home last night, bell housing is same, but apparently clutch specs may be different.
Looking at possably going with http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...-20s/overview/ or similar.
And stick with Cleveland.
__________________
Cruising in 5th
---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
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03-20-2014, 07:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville,
Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 2,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyBob
here in america the 351c and the 351w are different, the351c has the same bell housing as the 429/460 and the 351w has the same bell housing as the 289/302.
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I think you have confused the 351 M that went in trucks. |
03-21-2014, 10:43 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Jose CA,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF_R_/BRG/FRBoss302/327CI/FordEFI/Under_Car_Exh/
Posts: 2,523
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Not Ranked
With that old truck being - an old truck - are there others around you could get a cheap (good) motor from a bashed truck ? Might make the job easier !
If you want to put a 5.0 302w in it that could also work , probably a lot of bits needs changing though - header/manifolds , fuel lines , wiring , radiator tubes / links and oil pan clearances / design .
Make yourself a checklist and go through each system and verify the solution
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Steve SPF 2734 MK3 / Brock Coupe #54- panavia.com
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03-21-2014, 04:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,106
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Boxy just get an LS and get the LS to Windsor kit to bolt everything up.....
Compact, loads of power and u know the engine.
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03-21-2014, 05:41 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Brisbane, Australia,
Q
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary CCX3117 427FE
Posts: 4,381
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Ash has a good point and that's the path I'd be taking, as long as you're willing to change the model of the truck from Trader to Traitor. 
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Craig
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03-21-2014, 11:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sacramento,Ca.,
Ca.
Cobra Make, Engine: Midstates (2001)
Posts: 1,724
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Not Ranked
I'm gettin old and i have hit my head on the bottom side of the hood a few times...maybe i was thinking of the 351m.....
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03-22-2014, 07:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
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Not Ranked
Is there such a kit? Convert LS to Windsor/Cleveland bell housing?
__________________
Cruising in 5th
---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
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03-22-2014, 08:01 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Warwick,
Qld
Cobra Make, Engine: DRB, FORD 302W,T5
Posts: 487
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Not Ranked
Yes ! talk to Mal Wood --- we do this stuff all day long --- any engine any gearbox
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03-22-2014, 09:06 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Geelong,
Vic
Cobra Make, Engine: DRB, 302 EFI 5 speed 9"
Posts: 221
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Not Ranked
The Cleveland and windsor are all the same rear end.
The 5.0 ran different balanced fly wheel with the bob weights being 50z on the opposite side.
The pre 1970 windsor's ran a smaller flywheel 157tooth with 164 tooth after.
They are the same size as the cleveland but balanced different.
The clutches are mostly compatible but the flywheel may need to be drilled for pressure plate pattern.
The bell housings are different from the 157 tooth to the 164 tooth only in the starter motor bolt pattern is half a hole out.
The 5.0 is different in many ways.
If you are willing to run all the 5.0 accessories then it is a simpler because there is no balancer that suits the 5.0 to run a v belt.
From AU on the exhaust headers had a different spark plug angle so the earlier headers wont fit.
The cheapest option would be repair the cleveland and put a carbie type injection unit on top and decent exhaust. You can also improve torque for the task intended over the 5.0.
The 5.0 could be easy if you get a wreck but we found in a f100 they are slightly under powered.
The best option as stated earlier would be to get a conversion kit and put a LS into it. They make good power and economy for a standard engine.
At the end of the day it depends on what you want or need out of it.
If you dont drive it ofter the money save by KISS can buy a lot of petrol but if you do many KMS then the fuel saving can pay the conversion off quicker.
Ross
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03-22-2014, 09:18 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Geelong,
Vic
Cobra Make, Engine: DRB, 302 EFI 5 speed 9"
Posts: 221
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Not Ranked
sorry, the really early windsors had a 5 bolt rear end but are rear now
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03-23-2014, 06:26 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
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Not Ranked
That's what I am trying to weigh up Rossba.
It won't get used much, once or twice a year, but when it does get used, it will be 6000-7000kl trips.
I can get a complete LS donor car for under $2000 running. Whereas a pro-jet ion kit is going to set me back $1500 to start, then the motor needs to be fixed as it is seized.
So the LS donor route may be better.
__________________
Cruising in 5th
---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
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