FFR Coupe 65 in Sydney

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by SydneyChris

It's a capped 5mm wall section welded all round that's then welded to a 5mm thick disc welded to the rail. The original rail is 4mm wall, 4" dia.

This alone is not sufficient to replace the lost torsional strength but it's within 10%.

The US option is to cut a scallop into the rail from 1/2" to 2" deep then plate over. This solution is about 50% weaker than the initial construction.

The additional side impact rail with uprights and brace to the rear chassis member as well as bracing from an already up sized SHS section from the A pillar to the suspension uprights the whole chassis will be significantly stronger than its original configuration.

There were also a dozen different strengthening measures I'd taken with the original chassis including capping and internally welding the roll cage to the chassis cross rails and adding corner bracing at all overhead junctions.

The proof will be in the beam and torsion tests which according to my engineer will be required for my vehicle, but in short.. Im not just cutting the rail and replacing it with a 6" x 2" RHS.

Hi Chris, I build Cobra kits in SA and I see a real issue with what you are proposing as the FFR chassis from my understanding only just meets the nominal 6000Nm/Deg of deflection and with the 4" tubular chassis as the base you will find the torsional graph index to be quiet linear from zero deflection through to full deflection at the front of chassis. Therefore by adding in 6" x 2" RHS with a 5mm wall thickness you will be reducing the overall torsional stiffness to the point of non compliance, however more importantly you will be inducing a non linear flexion point on the chassis which can create an area of fatigue, and if you finish the car then set up for the torsional test you will be pulling the car down to repair/modify this back to the way it was. Just food for thought mate, as these are critical changes to your chassis and the potential viability of your project going forward.
Regards
Wil

[SydneyChris]

Thanks Wil.. happy to send you the full detail on the floor mods if you'd care to review..? Better to modify at this stage than after the interior is installed.

The mods were more comprehensive than just the quoted extract as I didnt want to bore the masses with all of the detail..

I ended up using 6mm wall, not 5mm for the main RHS rail. The end caps are 5mm on a 4mm wall chassis rail as noted.

Each junction of the 4" tube to the RHS is reinforced with a 20mm web plate and or joined to additional sections at the firewall and rear bulkhead.

Included also are the side impact / reinforcement measures with 3x50x25x3mm RHS uprights each side under the sill, which is upgraded from a 25x25 to 50x50 section. The downtube from the bottom of the A pillar is now also upgraded from 25mm sq to 50mm sq x 1.6mm wall, with a V section brace to the main chassis rail in 40mm roll cage tube half way between the firewall and the suspension mounts.

The transmission tunnel has been braced with 50x25 sections connecting it to the firewall and the rear of the seating area has an increased 50x25mm horizontal section and a web supported cross brace in 25mm sq connected to the dropper from the 4" cross rail on each side.

The firewall and footwell structures have been rebuilt with 50x25x1.6 and 25x25x1.6 to form a cage, with diagonal bracing on 3 sides and the top, These are bonded and riveted at 50mm intervals with 3mm AL sheet. The floor area in the main cabin is also now 3mm steel, welded all round, rather than 0.9mm Al sheet.

The roll cage has an additional brace to better suit a RHD vehicle and a crash bar has been added to the rear, but no diagonal bracing to the top of the rear bulkhead.

[ICCARS]

Hi Chris,

I can see what you have done there and think the quality of the workmanship is great, what I would strongly suggest is to test now, not later. I sort of compare what you have done there as similar to adding in tubs on a Torana (for instance) whereby the chassis twist up to the tubs is nice and linear, then all of a sudden you would see a spike in the graph due to the sudden step change caused by the rigid nature of the tube sections on the tubs. The thing is that you have introduced this change in state in the middle section of your chassis, so I would again suggest test now, that's all.
I love the project though, hopefully once I have finished my own Cobra (not everyone elses'..) I will look to build a chassis for a Daytona and then try and find a good body to wrap around it.
I still have to build another GT40 first so I must be crazy.. LOL
Cheers
Wil

[SydneyChris]

Thanks Wil.. it is the plan as soon as I get some cash (my labour is cheap, everyone else, not so much .. ). Have already ripped out the original floor once to add the RHS in order to gain some head and cabin room (rearward also). Appreciate the input..

Chris

Building another GT40.. ! I hear the real work is in the panel fit with all of those angular faces meeting.. has been a nightmare for some.

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by SydneyChris

Thanks Wil.. it is the plan as soon as I get some cash (my labour is cheap, everyone else, not so much .. ). Have already ripped out the original floor once to add the RHS in order to gain some head and cabin room (rearward also). Appreciate the input..

Chris

Building another GT40.. ! I hear the real work is in the panel fit with all of those angular faces meeting.. has been a nightmare for some.

Good stuff Chris,

I would hate to see you post pictures of a tear down once it was completed just in case there were any concerns with the chassis (from the Engineers of coarse!!)

Yeah, the GT40's are not the easiest thing to panel, but I have done one now so the next one is always easier, plus I have a nice little pneumatically operated Guillotine which helps.
Keep up the good work mate.

Cheers
Wil

[SydneyChris]

Giving power windows a go on my Coupe.

Tested the geometry with the existing door frames, and with the third (side impact) rail, the glass is unable to slide inside, outside or, (obviously) between the top and bottom rails, as had been done in the US.

Have started on a new door frame, with an increased distance between the horizontal rails and further to the pics attached, have moved the vertical members to the outside of the frame to increase clearance of the glass and the mechanism.

Am looking at a Suzuki Virtara window regulator, which has better packaging geometry than most hotrod flat window kits.

Interested in any thoughts or advice from someone whos conquered this mountain before me..

Cheers

Chris

[ICCARS]

I like your zest for modification Chris, this appeals to my sense of building one of these cars. Hopefully the power window will come into fruition.
Cheers
Wil

[Serpnt]

Hi Chris,

Having travelled through the power window road with my Daytona, albeit copying what Daytona Sports Cars have done before me, what does the power window regulator do

[David Hodgson]

Theo, the regulator is just the name the auto industry gives to the geared window winding mechanism.

[SydneyChris]

Originally Posted by Serpnt

Hi Chris,

Having travelled through the power window road with my Daytona, albeit copying what Daytona Sports Cars have done before me, what does the power window regulator do

hi Theo... did you have details you could post / share, did you have a build thread..?

Cheers

Chris

[SydneyChris]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

I like your zest for modification Chris, this appeals to my sense of building one of these cars. Hopefully the power window will come into fruition.
Cheers
Wil

Thanks Wil.. it is a bit of jigsaw..

[ICCARS]

Hey Chris,

I pulled the door trims off my Audi A6 donor car for my Cobra project and looked at the window regulators and thought I might take a photo or two for you as they are really compact and run a nice wire push/pull set up. I am back home tomorrow so might do that if your keen to have a look at some photo's. Might be a possible option for your project?
Cheers
Wil

[SydneyChris]

Cheers Wil.. Appreciate the input.

Have been looking for FLAT glass side window regulators.. went the entire way through the Dorman catalogue.. 1000+ entries.

Found the early Hyundai Getz, Ford Focus (00-07) and Hummer H2 (03-09). All have flat side glass, the smallest of which is the H2 with a window opening of around 350mm (scaled from a dimensioned drawing), the other two are close to 400mm. The Suzuki Vitara is larger again, but a cheap and relatively easily modified regulator.

These regs would need to cut down by 50mm or more and the cable re-swaged with a fitting, but there is almost NO lost space between the bottom of the glass clamp and the regulator which is whats required to fit inside the standard Coupe doors and fully retract the glass.

In speaking with a pro in the field this afternoon, he suggested a Ford Capri (roof that leaks anyone.. !!). These are similar to the units mentioned above, but are 3x the price for a reco unit.

Cheers

Chris

[ICCARS]

Hey Chris,
just a thought - but why not go for Poly-carbonate windows as opposed to glass, then you could cut it out to suit your application and notch/recess the lower clamp section from the regulator in order to give you more clearance - I can see by the angle of the window runners that the window will have trouble going all the way down - this may help you customise to a greater level.
P.S. I'll send you a photo of the reg's I have anyway and if you think they might work for you then you can have them and the window clamp etc.. I don't need them.

Cheers
Wil

[SydneyChris]

Cheers Wil.. you've spotted the problem when adding an additional rail for side impact protection. (the US version slides the glass between the upper and lower horizontal rails). Not sure how plexi helps if I wanted fast glass..?

Will post pic/s shortly of how I made the extra space to get the geometry to work..

EDIT..

pics uploaded.. door frame has the lower rail moved down by 60mm, a new mounting plate and the hinge set to the outer edge of the stop, which leaves sufficient space for a suitable regulator inside the door frame and the glass to fully retract. Am looking at the Hummer H2 rear door regulators as the closest thing to whats required at this stage, they would need to be shortened and the top roller refixed around 50mm shorter than the original.

A question you may be able to answer... the kit came with Eberhard 404 series two stage bear claw latches, which are FMVSS206 compliant (a standard which traces back to the EU requirements that the ADR is based upon). These can be opened via cable or a solenoid, but as far as I can tell only locked when they engage with the striker pin.

I was looking at a range of cable / pushrod connected inner and outer door handles.. but have no idea how the central locking process works with these.. IE: if the solenoid is triggered.. OR at any time the outer door handle is lifted the bear claw will open, meaning you cant lock the car with an external door handle.

Have browsed dozens of AU door locks and strikes which work with central locking and am still not clear on which way to go.. did you have a recommendation on using the existing latches or an ADR approved latch that will operate to lock and unlock the car via a remote trigger (key fob).

With thanks

Chris

[Serpnt]

Hi Chris
I thought I had provided all the photos of the power windows previously. Let me know if I haven't and your email address and I will send them through

[ICCARS]

Hi Chris,

I would look into using something like a VE commodore latch as opposed to the bear claw latches, as I don't recall the bear claw latches having a disengagement lever for central locking, whereas the VE latches do. You would need to make a bell crank in order to operate the outside door handle, but otherwise you could do what you wanted with the internal levers etc.. The striker you have on your car now may be OK also, but it would just be a matter of checking the relevant diameter.
I will post a photo of the regulator I have here in a minute, as they are nice little compact units with a cross over wire push/pull that looks to me like you could make it work for your application?

Cheers
Wil

[ICCARS]

Audi 2001 A6 Regulators.
I think these may be close to suitable as the reg sits on the inside of the runners and would provide optimum clearance as the window has no outward protrusions - maximising clearance and stroke of the window? if it were me I would just shorten the runners down to suit and set them in closer together and redo the cable to accommodate the revised length of the runners. Food for thought.

[SydneyChris]

Nice.. thanks Wil.. Will look into it between taxi runs for the kids over the weekend..

[SydneyChris]

Ok.. after checking out what feels like 11,421 different regulators (and taking my OCD meds) have managed to find a pair that I think will suit best AND can be shipped to AUS for less than the cost of the parts themselves.. other criteria included serviceability, know manufacturer, wire connection method, limited loss of vertical space when fully lowered and the type of glass clamp.

Preference would have been the Hummer H2 rear regs, which come with a simple rubber backed glass clamp, are close to the right length and are near as to completely flat but these were $US200 plus shipping each. The Lotus Elise reg is a similar configuration, no glass clamp, but a better style of mechanism, with dual rollers and an adjustable bump stop, but $600 new and $US150 plus for something 10 yrs old. Had trouble finding an A6 reg similar to the ones Wil has on his donor car.. then the price was a getting up there as well.

With Dorman and AC Delco as the two most prolific OEM suppliers I choose a pair of AC Delco Honda Civic (01-05) regs, part number 11A193 and 11A194. These will need to be straightened and the rail shortened (literally cut and notched at the new length), the winder mech is screwed, not pressed to the mounting plate, the cable connects to the window clamp bracket with a simple barrel end and the glass clamp lowers to within 1" of the bottom of the rail.

Shipping will be a couple of weeks.. expect to have heard back from a couple of suppliers re the VE door locks with actuators next week... asking price seems to be $200ea retail...! Not sure how much better I can do there.

Update after I have made my next series of mistakes and reworked them into a presentable fashion..

Cheers

Chris