What are my engine choices

[kyleb]

The factory built Robnells were approved as limited run production vehicles.
I was lucky enough to see the factory car on the dyno at the EPA vehicle testing facility in the late 80s at Altona whilst trying to get the engines approved.
The requirements were certainly a lot less stringent in those days.

[Rog246]

Wouldn't that stir up all the Jag owners !!
Just keep the lid on it down-" it's just a worked 4.2 mate "

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Rog246

Wouldn't that stir up all the Jag owners !!
Just keep the lid on it down-" it's just a worked 4.2 mate "

It's legit. Ford owned Jaguar for a while

[Rog246]

When you passed them Mike you could almost say TATA now !! LOL

[spookypt]

Originally Posted by kyleb

The factory built Robnells were approved as limited run production vehicles.
I was lucky enough to see the factory car on the dyno at the EPA vehicle testing facility in the late 80s at Altona whilst trying to get the engines approved.
The requirements were certainly a lot less stringent in those days.

And only those low production factory built cars, built and complianced pre 89 were legal the with 8stacks and live pipes. Robnell aren't all the same sadly as I have very recently discovered.

Spookypt

[damage]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

So am I to believe the Cammer engine has achieved full registration in Queensland? Has there been a major change in legislation or has someone successfully bribed the right people? I thought all engines had to be an emissions compliant engine???? I am guessing this would open the flood gates for any type of engine to gain compliance????

Yes it's registered LEGALLY.
Non one was bribed, believe it or not the Cretan who knew f&$)all actually might have been smarter then he was given credit for.


Read my threads and I made comments there about leaning the crap out of the engine to pass emissions.

Half the problem with this forum is there are so many experts on here that actually know f$&)all themselves. If one does the research there is a correct answer for everything and people telling me something COULDNT be done was just fodder to prove them wrong.

It even passed noise emissions tests with live side pipes something else that has been said on this forum that can't be done.

[Donunder]

Damage I don't know you, I've never met you so I have to take what you say on good faith. Fact is, for so long people building new cars have been told over and over again that the current restrictions mean that only modern emissions compliant motors with factory ECUs and inlet manifolds stood a chance of being able to be registered.

What you have done, in questioning the status quo, may mean that people who want to build a nice old school car now have a chance of doing so. By old school I mean a beautifully executed modern build with the best brakes steering and suspension available, but with an old style FE or similar big block with a desirable after market eight-stack or even quad Webers or a single or twin Holley setup under the hood. So perhaps "modern" old school is a better description. I know many builders have gone to serious lengths to improve cosmetically the appearance of their modern motors but looking at some of the engine bays in the cars on Cobra Country, I feel envious at what our American cousins have at their disposal. Same thing the last time I looked at the generic plastic shrouded motor under a modern Jag's hood and my mind went straight back to the glorious twin cam triple SU sixes of the early E Types. Showing my age I know ...

Now that your motor has been legally passed and accepted you may find that some guys with a love of Cobra history who have quietly mourned the passing of genuine old school cars into the graveyard of grey government over-regulation may now be inspired to either build or modify their Cobras to be more in keeping with what they perceive to be the true spirit of the Cobra.

I get the feeling the knowledge you have gained in walking your engine through the regulations minefield may become highly sought after by other builders in the future.

[kyleb]

Damage
Keen to know differences between states..
Did you have to pass IM240 test or is it different for QLD?
Was it ADR 37/00 or ADR 37/01 you had to comply with ?
What noise level did you have to pass ?
Was it a stationary test or drive by?
You're pretty quick to have a crack at people on here about their perceived lack of knowledge but remember the regulations differ from state to state unfortunately...
Cheers

[damage]

kyleb, I had to pass the same regulations as everyone else had too in QLD, I cant speak to other States because I don't have any experience in this regard.

The biggest issue I had to deal with was side pipes on both sides of the car, quite simply QLD transport didn't want to have a bar of that until I front and centered with a bunch of other Australian (and QLD) registered cars that were both factory produced and Australian compliant.

The biggest thing I found in this whole process was that an individuals interpretation of the rules generally meant that if they were sure on an answer that the general answer was NO. If you then questioned the response and provided greater substantive information that it was very easy to have the answer changed.

One thing that went a long way to assisting my registration process was having a good engineer that was willing to provide guidance as to what was needed to make everything good.

On your noise question my test was a drive by as well as static and was undertaken knowing full well that I could and would potentially fail. Telling the engineer that you expected to fail also (I believe) went a long way because that way he knew I wasn't trying to take short cuts.

Once I had a starting point I could obviously assess what was required to shut the car up and the second test was static and passed with flying colours.

[Zacson]

Hmmmmmm! So maybe I can get my 8 throttle bodies approved first up??? May be worth looking into a bit further.

[kyleb]

You would think that these regulations would be harmonised with all states in agreeance but sadly not so.
It's awesome that you were able to get yours through and that's the way I feel it should be in all states.
Our little ICV community, I wouldn't have thought has too much of an environmental impact taken into account the amount on the road.
Unfortunately for the Vic guys the 8 stack may have to go on after its passed !!

[damage]

Like I said it is all up to the individual transport officers interpretation of the rules that they are enforcing. Different people read things differently hence why this forum erupts into the odd argument every now and then

I fail to see why it is a common belief that an 8 stack wouldn't pass emissions and based on Rogers comment earlier in this thread someone else has also run this process previously and been successful.

Basically and very simplistically if you look at a modern day plenum all it is is an inlet manifold that brings the eight inlet runners into one common butterfly and air filter arrangement. You still have throttle position sensors, still have map sensors, a MAF isn't altogether necessary although could still be utilized if you had to have one and then still have o2 sensors so why cant it pass emissions if its in the hands of a good tuner.

[albanycobra]

I already said you can get an 8 Stack Windsor approved.Roaring Forties have everything you need to pass emissions and have had for years. RF have passed IM240 testing with a windsor 8stacked which is more difficult than adr37/01.

Here's what I learnt about emissions while getting my car licensed in 2013. Cat convertors have come along away in the last few years and secondary combustion happens in modern Cats, this process really cleans up your emissions. By using these Cats it allows motors with a bit of overlap to get through with a bit of tuning. Also modern programmable ecu's have a much higher resolution which gives much better control and closed loop operation.

[kyleb]

Originally Posted by albanycobra

I already said you can get an 8 Stack Windsor approved.Roaring Forties have everything you need to pass emissions and have had for years. RF have passed IM240 testing with a windsor 8stacked which is more difficult than adr37/01.

Here's what I learnt about emissions while getting my car licensed in 2013. Cat convertors have come along away in the last few years and secondary combustion happens in modern Cats, this process really cleans up your emissions. By using these Cats it allows motors with a bit of overlap to get through with a bit of tuning. Also modern programmable ecu's have a much higher resolution which gives much better control and closed loop operation.

And as I said before... There are different requirements between states.
Have a look at the RF website and you will note the 302 can be used in all states except Victoria.
That's what sucks !!
Sorry Jasbel for the thread shift.

[albanycobra]

Victoria ,you use the club rego option and run what ever you want....Whats Bernie running in his Alloy Kirkham?

You are right the RF page does say ADR79 but is that actually right? Treeve?

[Beejay]

Originally Posted by albanycobra

I already said you can get an 8 Stack Windsor approved.Roaring Forties have everything you need to pass emissions and have had for years. RF have passed IM240 testing with a windsor 8stacked which is more difficult than adr37/01.

Here's what I learnt about emissions while getting my car licensed in 2013. Cat convertors have come along away in the last few years and secondary combustion happens in modern Cats, this process really cleans up your emissions. By using these Cats it allows motors with a bit of overlap to get through with a bit of tuning. Also modern programmable ecu's have a much higher resolution which gives much better control and closed loop operation.

Pretty sure that the IM240 is just the test method, it does not specify the limits required.

How many test facilities are there in Qld? Does everyone up there need to do the test like in NSW?

I agree, it would be great if there was a clear set of rules and regulations that are black and white.

Cheers,

Ben

[DaveW]

Ben is correct, IM240 is a driving 4 minute (....240 sec) test where the driver follows a simulated throttle on/off, cruise, RPM, and load over time cycle.
Attached emissions equipment captures the emissions output measurements during the test.

The measurements are then compared to the relevant ADR37/xx requirements for a pass/failure result.

I have discussed with several tuners as i work towards my ECU selection,
The key components of the output is Tune, Cam, Compression. O2 sensors, not throttle bodies or ignition system.
The induction side...# of throttle bodies will have no effect on emissions provided the fuel A/R is tuned appropriately, the issue for big throttle bodies, is the ratio of opening to pedal movement affecting large TB, and multiple large TBs, vehicle drivability.....chime in here Gav...
The CAM and O2 sensors seem to be the issue. The wilder the cams, the more total unburnt hydrocarbons TUHC produced at the relatively low rpm scale used on the IM240 test cycle.
The leaner you go to correct this, elevates the NOx and you fail at this measurement.
I'm told that good wide band O2 sensors are a key factor in the ability (speed) of the ECU to react to changed conditions and that most vehicles fail the IM240 at the throttle chop and accel points in the drive cycle.

This is all I've learnt so far, but suffice to say, there is a good chance you will pass provided the CAM is from something relatively mild and the tuner is on the ball.

Dave

[Gav]

I rekon you have it covered Dave!
There is a huge difference in tuning for power versus emissions.
The ability for an engine to pass emmissions comes down to more than the intake, head design is a huge factor and I'd say Mr Damage will have a trick set of CNC'd heads on his, along with some pretty snazzy pistons, rings and cats to help what is a 50year old design comply with modern requirements.
Getting a cammer to pass emissions is a pretty cool result in my book.

[Rog246]

Don't forget, that you will improve your exhaust emissions using E85 as well, DO NOT discount this. If your tuner is worth his salt, he'll be able to set it up so it will accept several tunes using a hand help/laptop tuner, so you can switch between then tunes

[DaveW]

I forgot to mention the cats as well.