I want a cobra, how and why

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Hoity

Hey Steve, really hard choice, have further meeting planned with Martin to go over some questions and then i will fly up to Qld and have a look at their setup.

For me the Coyote seems the pick of the Ford motors.

The Cobra Kit is proving a bit of a tough one. Would love to know who has brought a kit other than pace in the last 6 months, all you hear and see for new builds is Pace.

Us Aussies aren't stupid. We know a great product when we see one.

The reason that all you hear about is Pace is because they are the best Cobra Kits anywhere on this planet and thankfully, they are manufactured right here in good ole Oz.

I don't own one, but if I was building now, that's where I would dump my cash. I'm also not getting a brown paper bag full of cash from Wazza to promote this magnificent vehicle. Congrats to you Craig.


Baz.

[Hoity]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

No love for the CR?

Mike, really like the look of the CR, when I started my voyage of discovery had it at the top of my list.
After chatting to 4 owners at nationals and receiving the info kit from Ian at CR, I have shifted it down the order. The round tube chassis I like, the body shape I like, lots to like,....
Not many others to choose from, the remaining suppliers appear a little outdated now, I could be wrong, Kenmer have updated their chassis/suspension package to modernise it. Difficult for smaller players to invest the r & d if there is no return.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Hoity,

The last CR round tube kit sale I'm aware of was December 2014, so 10 months ago.
There may have been more since but I only know of the ones that contact the "Round Tube Crew".
I'm in contact with the builder, if you want to contact him.

Dave

I have spoken with Ian and as above the consensus appears to be to go with pace. If a part finished kit appeared at the right price I would be tempted maybe.

One thing that sticks in my mind was chatting with john white(I think) and asking how he liked the pace. John told me it took him one month, one race meeting to sort the pace and get it handling, two other previous Cobras had taken the best part of six months and multiple meets to get sorted.

[Hoity]

Originally Posted by Baz

Us Aussies aren't stupid. We know a great product when we see one.

The reason that all you hear about is Pace is because they are the best Cobra Kits anywhere on this planet and thankfully, they are manufactured right here in good ole Oz.

I don't own one, but if I was building now, that's where I would dump my cash. I'm also not getting a brown paper bag full of cash from Wazza to promote this magnificent vehicle. Congrats to you Craig.


Baz.

Hey baz I hear what your saying, I feel like if brought something else other than a pace I would be that GUY, YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT DIDNT BUY THE PACE.
And I would hate the "I told you so"

[deano59]

Originally Posted by Hoity

Hey baz I hear what your saying, I feel like if brought something else other than a pace I would be that GUY, YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT DIDNT BUY THE PACE.
And I would hate the "I told you so"

nah you would be the bloke who bought a pace and stuck a ford engine in it

[Hoity]

Originally Posted by deano59

nah you would be the bloke who bought a pace and stuck a ford engine in it

I don't mind the sound of that!

[alffie]

PM some of the owners and ask about delivery times before you make up your mind

[Wazza]

Hoity appears to be chasing an "out of the box" Starter/roller package....
( i.e. without any major changes or customisations)

If that's the case then the delivery time is quite short....the finishing kit can always be supplied as needed at a later stage.

It's a bit hard to compare the supply of a body chassis to the supply of a complete starter/roller/finishing kit.
I know with my own car ..( Not an AP )....I had the body/chassis and a lot of components after the first 18 months....
but then it took me another THREE years to get all of the various bits and pieces to get the bugger finished.

Thank God those days are over.

Cheers,

Warren

[Gav]

After having a look at the AP cars on the weekend, I don't think anyone here or overseas is making a body that is of the same quality as AP is. The finish of the gel coat is superb.
The fit and finish of all the various parts is very impressive.
Johns King Cobra score is testament to the cars ability too.
Not my cup of tea, but f$$k they are a nice bit of kit!

[Modena]

In my opinion, the Pace is world class. If I was buying a kit now to build myself it is what I would buy, even though the chassis is not to my liking. It would be nice if they offered a more traditional chassis. Just an idea.

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Modena

In my opinion, the Pace is world class. If I was buying a kit now to build myself it is what I would buy, even though the chassis is not to my liking. It would be nice if they offered a more traditional chassis. Just an idea.

Was just thinking that this morning myself - if they had an option of an original style Steel tube chassis with billet suspension goodies ala Kirkham they would have every base covered. Food for thought Craig.....
Cheers

[d488y2]

The TIG Welded Aluminium Semi-Monocoque Pace Chassis provides all the drivetrain mount points and mounting points for other major components. The design also maximizes cockpit space and allows for a large range of engine & gearbox combo’s.
Craig and his team at AP have been an outstanding job in designing the chassis.
Everything fits together due to the design work done on a Computer just like all modern car today. And it’s that time taken in the design phase which has put the Pace kit ahead of the rest, IMO…..
My build was only weeks away from delivery when I decided to change the engine to the FPV 5.0 supercharged coyote.
When I rang Craig to tell him about the change his response was “Hell Yeah!!!!” And within a few weeks the chassis was modified to take the new engine and shipped. There would have been no way I could have modified the Chassis the way the Boys at AP did. Plus I can’t weld Aluminium : ((. I’ve been building my kit for about 5 months, only spending around 6 – 8 hours a week on it and it’s almost at the rolling stage. Great Kit, Great Design and heaps of fun to Build.

[albanycobra]

How does a FFR kit compare these days? The best car I ever screwed together was a FFR Coupe. No bull****, no excuses just good service and the car drove as good as the next. I bought mine before there was an Australian Rep, I think there is still a Rep in Perth WA? Pretty sure the Coyote fits and the body looks in right proportions. Mine came in a massive crate. It basically bolted together and if you are not sure there are a few forums to get ideas from. Anyways just some thoughts.

[400TT]

Thanks guys for the kind words, it's a very tough road to produce these cars in the current economic environment and it all helps...

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

...if they had an option of an original style Steel tube chassis...

You guys are diehards wanting an original style tube chassis.

We could not believe the amount of design advantages we were able to achieve with our alloy monocoque approach. In the end we found that running an original style chassis has lots and lots of compromises in terms of performance, comfort, safety, form and function:

• We would lose close to 4" in cockpit/seating height if we ran an original tube chassis.
• We would lose a significant amount of our footwell space particularly width.
• It would limit our drivetrain options and also result in a less optimised weight balance.
• Would lose significant amount of chassis stiffness, as in the tube chassis will be a fraction as stiff as our monocoque, would also lose substantial amount of strength and rigidity where suspension transmits load through and lose strength and rigidity where drivetrain torque is applied.
• Would also lose the stance we have, wheel arch gap between tyre and body would need to increase by at least 50mm or more as we would need to support underbody system as a lot of our sales are with underbody system.
• We would lose the pushrod suspension, can't fit it in with a traditional tube chassis. We can just fit it in with a monocoque chassis.
• We would need to run a more compromise suspension geometry
• We would have a less safe cockpit as we would not have that cockpit safety cell with up to 8mm wall to protect occupants in particular from side impact.
• Not as much safety and strength for door anti-intrusion bars to transmit impact force through.
• Not as strong mounting structure for rollbar/s.
• Cockpit footwells will not be structual aluminium plate, would need to be fibreglass or do we start to hybrid the chassis with structural aluminium footboxes.
• Cockpit transmission tunnel would not be as safe as it would be thin aluminium sheet.
• Seatbelt and Race Harness Mounts would not be as strong.
• Less room for wheels/tyres. We currently support 270mm+ front tyres, 350mm+ rear tyres, you can't do that with an original chassis.
• Etc, Etc...

There are just so many compromises with an original tube chassis design.

And we have already proved there is a far larger market for an aluminium monocoque in Australia. Since we have had the alloy monocoque chassis, no one has been interested in purchasing an original steel tube one. We have had products selling side by side that offered either to our customers and our customers chose the alloy monocoque.

But if anyone wants an original style tube chassis we are happy to do them, we even have the original style chassis in CAD as that is where we started from when designing the PACE 427. The PACE 427 actually retains some of the really cool design features from the original cars.

Definitely shop around and compare the different brands if you are looking to buy, unfortunately the economic environment has not been kind to this industry, so not as many players around now and most of the remaining players are what I would describe as virtually inactive unfortunately. Please contact us for our packing lists as we have a much more comprehensive offering than FFR, etc.


Craig White
Owner of Absolute Pace

[albanycobra]

Actually Craigs right....cut the chase, get a Pace and smile like everyone else when your car arrives.......

[deano59]

cant argue with the logic craig ..im the other way i love the modern design of the way the car is built and from my yrs racing i still get a hard on looking at the pushrod suspension . when your driving down the road and pull up next to lights do you think the bloke eyeing you pride and joy gives a rats . all they see is a nice looking cobra .

sure go round tube chassis then stick a jag front and rear or skyline/falcon whatever it does not make any closer to a real cobra than any other kits out there. sure the pace has gone a different direction than how it has been done the last 30 yrs but so has the car industry long gone are drum brakes and valve radios too ..

i dont want to be buying old jag parts then having to clean and recon stuff and have to hunt around looking for stuff i swear thats why there have been so many unfinished kits left in sheds as people lose interest as its taking so long to build and a lot of people dont have the skills to start with . but give them a kit with most of the bits supplied and i bet a lot more would have gotten finished .
ive just been painting the area where my car will be constructed so even working it's a nice clean and fresh place to work .....

over and out
deano

[Tenrocca]

Spent part of the day checking our Bens new Pace and they really are very very impressive. If I was looking for a new car a Pace would be top of the list.

I do reckon though a original style chassis would be a nice option. Those compromises you mention Craig are part of what makes an original what it is - a few of us would be happy to make them and are possibly the only reason anyone would consider anything else.

That said we did spend most of the time shaking our heads about just how good it is.

Cheers

[400TT]

Thanks Dean and Andrew, we've done the best we can.

[SydneyChris]

Repeat ALL of the above re the PACE.. Craig's response covers it well... is exactly why I stood there with my jaw on the ground when I saw an AP roller awaiting final assembly a few weeks back... and I have a Factory Five Coupe, which I have spent several hundred hours attempting to rectify the packaging compromises, strength and safety issues that are inherent in a rail type chassis, and I still have a sub optimal wheel and tyre package.

If you go for a CR you are buying an incomplete, outdated and significantly inferior product, regardless of how it may look standing still.

[Jaydee]

I must admit, I love my CR which is nearly finished, but the Pace does look like the bees knees. If you can buy every component and just bolt it together it shouldn't take to long to finish it. With the CR you have to make and design a lot of things, fit them, refit them 5 times or more, file and shape a bit more, until your happy. Like making a dash from scratch, making exhaust, wiring, radiator brackets, modifying the rear end to fit decent wheels, steering lock. The list goes on. I have enjoyed the journey and it has saved me heaps. But if I had plenty of cash and no patience or mechanical skills, I would buy a Pace for sure.
Just curious, what would the complete Pace kit cost? I mean, every part to finish one. With allowing say 15000 for engine and trans.
JD

[Hoity]

It's quite funny, you decide one day you want to build a cobra, you talk to people. It takes awhile, do your research, lots of options they say!

I have been researching for 4 weeks, yet the answer has been under my nose for 3 1/2 weeks. Some kit suppliers offer kits that appear cheap at the start, you talk to the people actually building them and the final result is not that cheap purely from a dollar perspective. Then how much time is too much time, is 250-400 hr labour of love ok, is 600+ hrs too much? Two or three days a month, somewhere in 2-5+ years you have a cobra.
Do you want to spend time at wreckers/Oem dealers sourcing parts, rebuilding secondhand parts, hard to quanitfy that cost.

Is an aluminium chassis going to work harden and crack, does aluminium suffer from elctroysis with two dissimilar metals?

Dirtbikes, boats and push bikes have been made from alloy for a long time with no adverse results. You get to hear a lot of crazy stuff.

If you want to build a car and are capable of maintaining your passion for the build after many many frustrating moments and have endless amounts of time, then you have a few more options.

This thread has a pretty common theme, sure people are passionate about there build but will acknowledge something special when they see it.