Seat belt light timer

[Zedn]

Hi All,

How have people addressed the seat belt light timer requirements of the ADR?

I have a timed relay that will address level 1, but how have people addressed the level 2 requirement of a visual and audible warning that meets the speed and distance requirements? I'm struggling to understand what it needs to do let alone how to make it do it.

Cheers
Liam

[Jethrow]

This is not called up in the ICV requirements of VSB14. Is this just a NSW thing?

[SydneyChris]

It is a NSW thing.. ! Approved DIN symbol needs to stay illuminated for 20s I think it is when the ignition is on.

A simple relay timer circuit would do it.. ebay / Jaycar for less than $10 Id expect. I had a warning light panel printed by a mob in the US (New Vintage), they did a great job.

I've installed a Motec PDM and keypad for all of my electrics, so Ive done it through a logical linkage to the ignition circuits as they are enabled.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Zedn

Hi All,

How have people addressed the seat belt light timer requirements of the ADR?

I have a timed relay that will address level 1,

That's all you need. Same requirement for all states in Australia.

but how have people addressed the level 2 requirement of a visual and audible warning that meets the speed and distance requirements? I'm struggling to understand what it needs to do let alone how to make it do it.

Not Required.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by SydneyChris

I had a warning light panel printed by a mob in the US (New Vintage), they did a great job

Nice work!!!

[Jethrow]

Originally Posted by 400TT

Same requirement for all states in Australia.

Not required in WA. It's not in the ICV checklist, so it should not be required in any state !!

[Jaydee]

My engineer in Adelaide says I don't need any timer.
JD

[Zedn]

Craig, what makes you say it's not needed?

I havnt had the same advise.

[400TT]

Zedn, where is your engineer getting the requirement for the seatbelt warning, out of ADR 4/05 by the sounds of it. Is he going to get you to meet all the other requirements out of 4/05?

ICV's use the seatbelt warning light requirements out of ADR 69/00. But ICV's are exempted from the impact requirements in ADR 69/00.

I really thought every state had this requirement, but not surprised as the requirement for ICV's gets progressively easier as you head from the east coast to the west coast.

All clear as mud. :-)

[Jethrow]

ADR 69 is not called up in the NCOP VSB14 ICV Checklist L01-3 as far as I can see. This is the main checklist we use in WA. Actually ADR 4/05 is not called up either, just 4/02 and 4/03.

Do you have additional requirements in NSW?

The reason I ask is I noticed when I was getting my car registered in WA everyone was advising me I had to do the seatbelt timer thing but when I challenged them as to why no one could give a straight answer, other than he said/she said. I feel sometimes rumour drives what we think we have to do more than fact.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Jethrow

ADR 69 is not called up in the NCOP VSB14 ICV Checklist L01-3 as far as I can see. This is the main checklist we use in WA. Actually ADR 4/05 is not called up either, just 4/02 and 4/03.

We are all using that same VSB14 checklist.

But each state can dictate variations if required.

We technically only have an exemption from the testing requirements in ADR 69, the other requirements such as seat belt warning light still remain.

Yes, VSB 14 seems to miss a few legacy requirements.

Jethrow, I think this is where the confusion you have encountered has occurred. The seat belt warning light is an old requirement. But the requirement is no longer documented in VSB 14, etc.

NSW is not the only state that requires seat belt warning lamps, QLD does and I assume VIC does as well.

The requirements of ADR 4/05 are just too complex for ICV's, that is why it is not included in VSB 14. No ICV's should be asked to comply with requirements of ADR 4/05.

[Jethrow]

So I admit to being confused by your reply.

The latest VSB14 seems to "miss" some legacy requirements? Or perhaps strictly speaking, they are no longer a requirement. This all seems to suggest then that you are actually volunteering some additional, albeit legacy, requirements of your own onto the builders.

Again, the current incarnation of VSB14 does not call up ADR 69.

Or does your approval process specifically state that you have to comply with the ICV checklist from VSB14, AND in addition, Section 5.5 (Seatbelt Warning) of ADR 69?

Thanks

[400TT]

Jethrow, the crux of the issue is this (which you might already know)...Each state has full control of ICV registration within it's own state boundaries.

So any National regulations such as VSB 14 are only guidelines that the state uses.

So for example in QLD, they start with VSB 14 and then QLD Transport add their own requirements and regulations on top.

We have had the same experience in NSW.

Even WA has it's own unique rules.

Every state has different requirements.

And it is also why not only the requirements vary from state to state, but also the process of registration varies from state to state.

Then you have engineers not interpreting the regulations correctly and who can blame them, they are convoluted. This is why this thread was created in the first place.

So the answer to your question is "YES". VSB 14 seemed to miss some legacy compliance requirements, no problem, the states that want them, just add the ones they want back into their requirements.

We work directly with engineers and transport departments to provide as simple registration process as possible for our customers.

[Jethrow]

Yeah I know 400TT, I was just playing devils advocate.

I did find however in my own experience in WA there was a lot of speculation as to what is actually required. I can only suggest everyone has a read of the requirements themselves and then perhaps discusses it with their engineer because (as 400TT alludes to) even their interpretation may not be correct.

Good luck to all and happy easter.

[Zedn]

I think there is a bigger problem of speculation of exemptions. Vsb14 is old, ADRs change. If there is no published exemption by RMS it doesn't exist.

I have asked my engineer to confirm applicability. VSCCS Bulletin 2 includes ADR 4/04 so I suspect RMS will want compliance to 4/05.

I actually don't think it will be that hard to comply. If I just install a buckle with a sensor it will be able to meet the requirements.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Zedn

I have asked my engineer to confirm applicability. VSCCS Bulletin 2 includes ADR 4/04 so I suspect RMS will want compliance to 4/05.

Even if RMS do ask for 4/05, they may not ask for all of it. I would be asking for ADR 69/00 seat belt warning regulations as a substitute as it is reasonable. I'm pretty confident that RMS is not looking for any more than that.

I haven't read 4/05 for quite a while, but don't you need multiple triggers, buckle switch and speed input? Possibly even weight switch in seat to detect a passenger.

It's not so bad for a manufacturer like ourselves, as we will just manufacture the system for our own kits, but for home builders I feel it is a bit unrealistic for the whatever gains the newer regulations achieve.

[Zedn]

Only if you don't want it on all the time. A simple circuit with a buckle sensor would mean it's on whenever the ignition is on and seat belt not buckled. Not ideal, but would pass any of the tests.

[renovationinnov]

so let me get this straight
the seat belt sensor would only trigger the light to turn off once you connect it to the female seat belt , so then what turns it off for the passengers side
or does the passengers not have a sensor only a timer when ignition is on ??????????
& how does it read that someone is no in that seat
sorry I'm lost

rob

[Zedn]

Not required for passenger

[Treeve]

With behaviours from the RMS (e.g. currently taking 6+ months to issue a VIN), then yes, they will be after full compliance to ADRs unless they have written an exemption such as VSCCS Bulletin 2.

VSB14 is a guideline and has NO legal standing in NSW. You may as well print it and wipe your arse with it; it's not worth the paper it's written on.