ABS a requirement for ICVs in NSW

[Zedn]

Man I hope your right Wil

[Treeve]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

Hey Treeve,

under the section "Modifications which require brake system assessment" it states in section 18 that ICV's using donor car brakes do not require the use of the ABS system. Does the statement that all ICV's require the use of ABS over ride the prior section 18 detail?

Cheers

G'day Wil,

Unfortunately, you've misread what it says - it's a lot worse than that.

What is says is:

"ABS and/or EBS from the donor vehicle shall not be used."

This means you can't use the ABS from the donor vehicle, but you still have to have ABS - so you have to get ABS from somewhere else, then get it sorted for your vehicle.

Good luck finding a highway approved aftermarket ABS controller - or completing the full ADR testing as required by the comment at the start of the document.

Treeve

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by Treeve

G'day Wil,

Unfortunately, you've misread what it says - it's a lot worse than that.

What is says is:

"ABS and/or EBS from the donor vehicle shall not be used."

This means you can't use the ABS from the donor vehicle, but you still have to have ABS - so you have to get ABS from somewhere else, then get it sorted for your vehicle.

Good luck finding a highway approved aftermarket ABS controller - or completing the full ADR testing as required by the comment at the start of the document.

Treeve

Thanks Treeve,
these people obviously have no idea of what they are doing in the slightest.. At least allowing the standard donor ABS to be installed would be a better start than trying to mix and match one to suit...
Lets hope their stupidity and narrow mindedness is not contagious..

[Treeve]

Time to quote Baldrick:

I have a cunning plan.

[Tonus72]

Tas rule is that if you use a donor system that had ABS as standard, then fully functioning ABS must be used too.

??

Sounds close. ish...

[Modena]

Originally Posted by Treeve

"ABS and/or EBS from the donor vehicle shall not be used."

This means you can't use the ABS from the donor vehicle, but you still have to have ABS - so you have to get ABS from somewhere else, then get it sorted for your vehicle.

so....you can get donor brakes from a falcon, and an ABS unit from a Mazda....that complies with the above?

[Treeve]

And how is it configured? How have you then proven that it meets the full segment of the ADR without the required testing? How do you know that all of the components will operate together correctly.

THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SAYING "IT'S EASY JUST DO THIS..." LISTEN UP:

It's not a requirement of the ADR. It's not a requirement for Low Volume Vehicles. It'ss going to add a load more cost to your project if you can find a certifier who will sign off on it, and that the RMS will accept their testing.

So: how about we do the right thing and actually reject this? Otherwise the RMS is back to kicking goals by moving the goal posts for you with no legal right whenever they want. We are back in the bad old days, that's for sure.

[Gaz64]

Technically, the donor ABS system needs to come from a vehicle with the same track and wheelbase.

The recipient vehicle needs to run the same rolling diameter tyres on all four corners, unless some smart aftermarket programming can be employed.

A little story:

Customers car a few years ago.
ABS warning light on, logging codes for rear wheel speed sensors, all next steps were separate jobs, new rear wheel speed sensors, run new shielded harnesses to rear wheels from ABS module away from other wiring, replace ABS module.

Eventually we worked out the fault did not occur until full lock applied while performing a U-turn.

Ends up being programming parameters too stringent for the different wheel speeds while turning. All vehicles of that model then receive a recall notice for ABS module programming update.

Gary

[Tonus72]

The ABS decision for ICV's seems to be more about ignorance than safety.

After speaking to Transport Department reps in each state and territory, the conversation with the NSW rep was by far the most disappointing.

The attitude to ICV's was mostly contempt...

Nothing like that at all from any of the others

Tony

[Gaz64]

I wonder if the authorities ever think that if all cars were ICVs, the number of vehicle crashes would be SIGNIFICANTLY less than we have now.

ICVs and car enthusiast correctly modified cars all generally have many dollars and time poured into them, and so the owners are generally better educated safer drivers.

[Jaydee]

Not having power brakes and needing 40 kg to stop mine. I would need 2 feet on the brake pedal to be able to lock up mine.
JD

[SydneyChris]

I got fantastic help from the guys at Warringah Brake and Clutch in Sydney.. they made a custom double diaphram booster and bored a matching MC to suit the specs of the Willwoods I had fitted... Second time around I'd stick with the master cylinder set up that came with the car...

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by SydneyChris

.....Second time around I'd stick with the master cylinder set up that came with the car...

I reckon if you had done that with everything from day dot, you'd be finished, registered, and looking forward to your 3rd nats in October

Glad mine got done when it did. I say a little prayer of thanks to Treeve every night before bed.

[SydneyChris]

Dennergiveash!t also set me back 18 months redoing pretty much all of his undervalued input.. but I digress..!

[Rob. Smith]

I'm questioning whether the RMS is conversant with the Australian Design Rules ? I'm not up to date with the rules right now but doesn't the ADR's apply to the whole country ?How does this "rule" not apply to the rest of the country ???

[Treeve]

Because: the states each govern registration. The ADRs cover nothing to do with registration. They have decided to impose this piece of policy based on their misunderstandings (trust me, there's a lot of them). Therefore they believe they ha e the right to write their own legislation (which they don't). This is why we need to stand up for our rights - so small minded bureaucrats don't get in the way of genuine people wanting to enjoy their lives legitimately and by the rules.

[just dreamin]

Message sent.

[Hail427]

Hi all i like every one here was looking for a quick fix, but the more you look into it the more intricate it is, Treeve is on the right path the ABS from a donor car does not work for us its not like you can find a donor car with similar overall weight, front/rear weight distribution, centre of gravity, roll rate, and wheelbase.reprogram the EBCM (it cost manufacturers millions to develop test and implement then TO WARRANTY all the parts etc here is an old magazine HOW TO: ABS For Hot Rods - Installing A Late-Model Electronic Stability Control System - Hot Rod Network read the whole story and you will come up with the same thing as Treeve has been saying, and what he says "They have decided to impose this piece of policy based on their misunderstandings" and the best Quite "small minded bureaucrats" they don't understand what they have.(or do they?) Read the article see if it becomes clear to you as well.

[Hail427]

Originally Posted by Treeve

And how is it configured? How have you then proven that it meets the full segment of the ADR without the required testing? How do you know that all of the components will operate together correctly.

THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SAYING "IT'S EASY JUST DO THIS..." LISTEN UP:

It's not a requirement of the ADR. It's not a requirement for Low Volume Vehicles. It'ss going to add a load more cost to your project if you can find a certifier who will sign off on it, and that the RMS will accept their testing.

So: how about we do the right thing and actually reject this? Otherwise the RMS is back to kicking goals by moving the goal posts for you with no legal right whenever they want. We are back in the bad old days, that's for sure.

I agree with Treeve lets tell RMS “Worst idea since someone said ‘yeah let’s take this suspiciously large wooden horse into Troy, statues are all the rage this season’.”

[Zedn]

Bosch themselves told me it can't be done. When the people that design and make ABS say it can't be done safely.. it can't be done.