AWD ICCARS Cobra

[Jaydee]

Do you make your own body?
JD

[d488y2]

Mad Skills, loving this build !

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Do you make your own body?
JD

Hey JD, I do mate. In fact for this build I am going to have to make the body in sections and then set it up on this chassis and joint it together to make it all fit.. Will be the hardest part of the whole job I think!!

Cheers

[renovationinnov]

wil
how are you going to have the front end attached ?
then where does it drive from ?
or is this still in the planning stage

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by renovationinnov

wil
how are you going to have the front end attached ?
then where does it drive from ?
or is this still in the planning stage

I have a design for this system to drive the front wheels but it is not proven and so I need to build and install this drive then test it and I will look to put a patent on just this part of the car as it has taken a few years of my time to get this part of the car thought out - sorry I can not give you any more info but with all due respect it is something I am keeping close to my chest for now.

I am confident in the drive system however, but the proof is in the tasting as they say.

Cheers

[deano59]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

I have a design for this system to drive the front wheels but it is not proven and so I need to build and install this drive then test it and I will look to put a patent on just this part of the car as it has taken a few years of my time to get this part of the car thought out - sorry I can not give you any more info but with all due respect it is something I am keeping close to my chest for now.

I am confident in the drive system however, but the proof is in the tasting as they say.

Cheers

im sure you will sort the drive system out I can think of 2 ways straight off the top of my head that would get drive to the front wheels easy enough wether it would be strong enough would be the million dollar question I am watching this build with keen interest I love it when people think outside the box and do things that are unconventional ,,cheers dean

[ICCARS]

You are absolutely correct Deano in what you have mentioned, however I can advise that by my calcs the drive system I have designed is strong enough, in fact the service factor is something to the order of 5 times greater than the minimum strength/load requirement based on the Audi V8 output. However the issue of keeping the transfer drive stabilised under excessive twist of the chassis is where I have had to concentrate my efforts. As is the case in most chassis, the main point of flexion is in the front part of the chassis between the left hand and right hand chassis rails, therefore it is imperative that whatever system of transfer drive is being applied is suitable to withstand this movement sufficiently.. This will be the real test for the drive system!!

[ICCARS]

So with limited time today I managed to get a little bit more done on the AWD cobra project. All the rolled sections are finished, the mid bulk head is in and ready for connection to the front tie ins and side intrusion plates to be fitted, the rear bulk head is in place and the secondary carry frame for the body is also in place, so now I just need to make the boot pieces and weld them in and the rear end is finished - easy..

The front tie in sections that carry the body through the length of the bonnet opening have highlighted a small concern, as I cut out the strut mount plate from the donor car and affixed it to the the struts to position them exactly where they would be in their original position - this has then highlighted that the spread between them is too close. The solution is to remove the strut carry plates and mount the top control arms onto the tie in bars and make new mount plates for the struts that move them out further in order to clear the body... That's my thoughts on it anyway

The other thing that this top strut mount plate has highlighted is that I will need to rotate the steering rack on it's axis to have the steering input shaft for the rack turned up at approx. 45 degrees to clear the engine cam cover. All still coming together pretty good though and the chassis is almost nearing completion in the pre-assembly stage..

[cg514]

how are you rolling the box tube Will?
chris

[deano59]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

I will need to rotate the steering rack on it's axis to have the steering input shaft for the rack turned up at approx. 45 degrees to clear the engine cam cover. All still coming together pretty good though and the chassis is almost nearing completion in the pre-assembly stage..

ive just done the same thing on a rack we fitted into a hq chassis and made it left hand drive as well ..to get the rack mounted and get bump steer and Ackerman's angle somewhat right the output shaft on the rack was pointing upwoulds I used a small 90 deg gearbox with a 1to 1 ratio off a conveyor belt system I mounted one end to the rack and the other to the shaft going up to the steering wheel problem solved ..cheers dean

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by cg514

how are you rolling the box tube Will?
chris

I have a form roller that I use to roll the steel (in the background of the photo). I can roll round tube with it also and it's a very handy machine to have.. I made the missus a shade house using 38x25 RHS galvenised fencing rail @ 7.5mtrs in length and rolled them to a 3mtr radius (half round sections 6mtrs across) I wish I had photos when we did it as she was holding the tube and the ends were almost touching the top of my 7mtr high shed.. lol.
I have built cattle races with it and all sorts of individual items.. I even made some smooth rollers up and rolled 6mm steel plate for on of my excavator buckets I built.. Very handy.

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by deano59

ive just done the same thing on a rack we fitted into a hq chassis and made it left hand drive as well ..to get the rack mounted and get bump steer and Ackerman's angle somewhat right the output shaft on the rack was pointing upwoulds I used a small 90 deg gearbox with a 1to 1 ratio off a conveyor belt system I mounted one end to the rack and the other to the shaft going up to the steering wheel problem solved ..cheers dean

Hey Dean, that is a great idea if you can get the two to sit at right angles to each other... Hmmm thinking, thinking..

[Dimis]

Far be it from me to offer any safe advice. I can't even complete my 5year old's lego car in the same time as you've built this car. But if I may can I ask this dumb question?

If you are building the chassis around the engine and drive train, how do you know you'll have enough clearance to pull the engine, (or box etc) should you need to in the future?

I'm thinking you've thought about this and other things, so excuse my ignorance.

[ICCARS]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Far be it from me to offer any safe advice. I can't even complete my 5year old's lego car in the same time as you've built this car. But if I may can I ask this dumb question?

If you are building the chassis around the engine and drive train, how do you know you'll have enough clearance to pull the engine, (or box etc) should you need to in the future?

I'm thinking you've thought about this and other things, so excuse my ignorance.

Ah, good questions Dimis; I was waiting for someone to ask this question and I can advise that contrary to the normal designs of the various cobras built here and abroad, this chassis design allows for the engine and trans to drop out through the bottom of the chassis, as the engine just clears the side 4" tube chassis rails and the rear brace tubes are angled to clear the trans.

[SydneyChris]

Is the easiest way to get access to everything... is a 'mod' I had wanted to to for mine after realizing how much work it would be to do something as simple as a clutch.. ! Need to check if I jack the engine up and remove the mounts whether the block will drop through the rails.. it may work with a bit of wrestling. Would then need to mod the rear gearbox mount to make it a bolt on, rather than welded bracket and it would be 'possible' !!

Is great to watch how you have tackled these issues Wil.. good to learn from your experience and consider whats achievable with a bit more know how...

PS.. 5x for your driveline calcs is a reasonable safety factor to account for shock loading..

[ICCARS]

Good luck with that mod on the FFR chassis Chris, from memory the chassis rails are only 22" apart from centre to centre so this would only give you 457mm between the tubes to drop the entire engine out - unless I am missing the point and you just wish to drop the trans out only? That might be plausible but I am not sure about the bell housing you are using on your set up - I know on my std chassis there is no way that could drop a trans out through the chassis rails as my chassis is 50mm narrower than the FFR chassis.

The drive redundancy was calculated on the basis of the 70/30 split through the drive train, therefore the rear wheels take up a majority of the load and the front wheels pull the nose straight on hard acceleration.. I just need to keep ploughing through now and get it finished while the consulting work is slow and I am able to be home for extended periods of time lol..

[deano59]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

Hey Dean, that is a great idea if you can get the two to sit at right angles to each other... Hmmm thinking, thinking..

they don't even have to be at right angles you can use some uni joints that we use on the steering coloums to get a bit of leeway with it

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

Ah, good questions Dimis; I was waiting for someone to ask this question and I can advise that contrary to the normal designs of the various cobras built here and abroad, this chassis design allows for the engine and trans to drop out through the bottom of the chassis, as the engine just clears the side 4" tube chassis rails and the rear brace tubes are angled to clear the trans.

Ahha! I see.
I trust this extra width also helps with pumping up the torsional stiffness relative chassis whose rails are closer together. I'm thinking wider leverage points, or am I barking up the wrong tree?


This things going to corner like electricity.
Lower, wider, shortened wheel base, with wide ar$e rubber, and lighter than the car the drive train came out of... with all wheels simultaneously tearing at the pavement. I'm most eager to see it go.

[SydneyChris]

Originally Posted by ICCARS

Good luck with that mod on the FFR chassis Chris, from memory the chassis rails are only 22" apart from centre to centre so this would only give you 457mm between the tubes to drop the entire engine out - unless I am missing the point and you just wish to drop the trans out only? That might be plausible but I am not sure about the bell housing you are using on your set up - I know on my std chassis there is no way that could drop a trans out through the chassis rails as my chassis is 50mm narrower than the FFR chassis.

The drive redundancy was calculated on the basis of the 70/30 split through the drive train, therefore the rear wheels take up a majority of the load and the front wheels pull the nose straight on hard acceleration.. I just need to keep ploughing through now and get it finished while the consulting work is slow and I am able to be home for extended periods of time lol..

Thanks Will.. yes.. the intent was to change the clutch by dropping then then tilting the driveline enough to back the transmission off the bell housing.. then drop that before doing the swap..

[ICCARS]

Some progress photos from today following the kids footy and netball!!

Starting to look more & more like a car now..