Engine oil leak

[stephen low]

G'day Folks

Took the missus for a last run Friday pre-lockdown but discovered I'd accumulated sufficient oil from a leak to create pools and start dripping all over the garage.

The engine is a 220 Windsor with alloy heads so nothing much out of the ordinary.

The pooling is around the front of the engine at the syncroniser as sort of visible in the photo attached. I had cleaned a lot of oil away before taking this pic.



Sorry for the mammoth photo!

About to pull the alternator first but any suggestions as to what I might look for?

Any advice appreciated as we are just under three weeks out from the Alpine Run, I don't wont to miss it but typical timing hey!!

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[Unique427]

If your request for help involves locating the oil
leak source, clean oil residue off the engine with
solvent.

Use some engine oil dye such as:
Genuine GM Fluid 88861206 4-in-1 Fluorescent Dye

Run the motor sufficiently to produces leaks then
inspect with a UV / Blacklight flashlight such as a:
TaoTronics TT-FL002 Black Light

Sample video of process here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0EtW6yxKb8

Should help determine the location and extent of your leak source.

[Gaz64]

I see a split cork valley seal between the bottom LHS of the manifold and the top of the block. I don't use cork at all.
Run a bead of silicon (I like UltraGrey) of a little higher than the required height, as measured with a dummy run of the manifold with intake to head gaskets only.
Gary

[stephen low]

Thanks for the input guys

Cleaned up the area really well and ran the car up to 105C and then let the thermo fan cool back to 85 - 90C and no sign of any leaks or weeps yet.

Need to take it for a modest run to repeat the exercise.

Gary not sure what you meant in your description?

Do you run any sort of gasket between manifold and block?

Or is it some form of liquid gasket you mean?

Steve

[Gaz64]

Sorry Steve, I left out the important component in place of cork, silicon in a tube, like UltraGrey etc. Much easier to get a seal, and not crush the cork out versus insufficient clamp on the heads.
Gary

[stephen low]

Thanks Gary

For now it appears to be a slow weep which is less dramatic but still needs to be checked.

Awaiting removal of lock down and I'll take it for a modest drive to let me periodically check what's going on. The run up in the shed produced no result.

Hoping I can hold off anything significant until a planned winter attack on a range of outstanding details.

Cheers

[Gaz64]

Yes, it looks like a slow weep, and the manifold needs to come off for a typical inlet manifold gasket leak repair in the near future.

Gary

[stephen low]

assuming its a manifold leak. I wondered if the syncroniser O ring might be the culprit?

[saki302]

One thing to check- last track outing a bunch of oil came out of my valve cover breather and the pvc grommet- most of it looks like it dripped down the front like your oil leak.

I traced it with uv dye and a black light. I suspected a valve cover gasket or manifold gasket.

[1795]

Steven,

It may be my monitor, but it looks like there is a small defect in the black hose at the top of the picture.

Jim

[stephen low]

Jim

Not your monitor, but must have been some crap on the hose at the time.

Any hose leak here would actually help clean off the oil, this hose being the fuel feed link between the manifold rails - lol

But that sort of leak, might cause some far more exotic end result - lol

But I do carry a fire extinguisher - just to be safe

Saki

Am planning a modest drive to retest any leak under driving conditions first.

Will see if I can replicate the oil release to perhaps better understand the source and hence the fix needed.

Thanks

[stephen low]

So finally a chance test drive the car and it's no oil weep, it's a leak from under the manifold.

Hopefully the video attached works and sorry can't make it up right.

At about 9 seconds in look at the underside of the syncro between base and neck and on each subsequent engine rev you will see oil spurt out.

https://sendvid.com/rdurxvf3

Hadn't realized there were oil passages linked to the manifold.

So obviously will start to tear down the engine but keen for feedback on where the oil is leaking from at the front of the manifold.

Cheers

[stephen low]

So took to the spanners after discovering the oil leak source, knowing I'd have to get the lower manifold out to understand the reason for the leak.

I originally received the engine with the lower manifold in place but had never disassembled to that stage, and looking at the gaskets used I now have a few questions.

Interestingly I discovered that I must have mucked up on the upper manifold install as you can see by the state of the gasket.



The engine ran ok but I'm hoping the cure of this air leak might further improve performance.


So with the lower manifold out, there photos are of the gaskets across the block at the front and rear end of the valley.





My first questions are whether these gaskets are normally installed, are these gaskets just the short sections visible or part of other gaskets installed and do I just leave these bits in place?

I ask as the next two photos cause me some confusion and what gaskets are needed.
These photos show the underside of the lower manifold.

The first is the front end of the manifold showing a large gap in the gasket and the source of the leak behind the synchro.



The second photo is the rear edge of the manifold without any gasket present.




So would there normally be two gaskets assembled across the block at the front and rear end of the valley?

I am guessing the answer is no but I am trying to understand why then there is no gasket on the rear manifold face.

More particularly I need to know what to do to correct this.

What gaskets / gasket cement-goo should I be buy to facilitate the repair?

Is there such a thing as a lower manifold gasket set or even a combo covering the lower and upper manifolds, head gaskets and thermostat set?

Suggestions and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[David Hodgson]

Slowly, this is exactly what Gaz was referring to in post #5. Most engine builders do away with the cork gasket and use a thick bead of an appropriate silicon. It fills the gap exactly where as the cork can sometimes be too loose. If you must use the gasket, half a dozen decent centre punch marks along the block where the gasket sits will help keep it in place.
The missing rear gasket may still be stuck to the block
Cheers

[stephen low]

Taking a second look I wonder if it is just the gasket goo across the front block face with the gasket on the manifold.

And at the rear the gasket has remained stuck to the rear block face.

So does this mean these are single gasket pieces for each end?

[David Hodgson]

Yes Steve; single pieces. They often have a tag that aligns into a notch on the manifold port gaskets. If you use them you will apply silicone at this joint
You should be able to buy the manifold set. Get good quality.

[LoBelly]

Hi Slowy

https://www.permatex.com/product-cat...ers/?locale=en

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/sh...gasket-sealant

Last time I had the manifolds off I made up the exhaust gaskets with the high temp red stuff and just used that for the valley sections of the inlet to replace the cork.

Otherwise I have used the grey stuff in the past for inlet (found the tube had gone off last time).

If you get stuck give me a call.

ta
LoBelly

[stephen low]

Thanks all guys.

Can also lean on a good mate and fellow sailor for advice who is a mobile mechanic.

Have ended up with the right Permatex gasket set and after a clean up, I test fitted the lower manifold pieces.

Understand now why the protruding head gasket bits are there to match in with cut outs on the lower gaskets as well as the tab cut outs for the front and rear cork gaskets.

Also have the Permatex aviation sealant liquid for the port gaskets and the ultra black for the front rear gaskets my mate uses and has recommended.

No sure why the front gasket had bulged out but know to make sure it aligns well between the mating faces.

Will be fitting up tomorrow night and don't anticipate any issues, so all should be good.

Thanks again though for the advice.

[stephen low]

So just some feedback from this arvos refit.

The front and rear gaskets both needed some minor trimming as were too wide to fit on the flange faces and yet match into each side.

the front gasket has the self adhesive sticky side down and so positioned this one first with the head gaskets for guides. The rear had to be ultra black siliconed first.

Aviation sealant to the water ports on the head and a bit more ultra black into the corners to be sure and the lower manifold was bolted down.

The rear gasket has squirmed about but I believe I have a full seal, start up tomorrow will tell.

This perhaps may have been part of the issue for the front gasket originally.

Given my engine builder and I are both old school auto machinists, it is hard for me not to go to the gaskets provided, but I understand the advice about using just a good gasket goo as the seal. Maybe next time!

Hopefully I can do final sign off tomorrow once I run up the car, check for leaks and do a test run.

Here's hoping.

Thanks all for the advice!

[stephen low]

So seems to be happily purring again with no issues yet.

Also running better now with the upper gasket correctly installed!