Insurance

[Shelby400]

What Insurance companies are you guys using for your Comprehensive Insurance?

Shannons seems to be expensive. Are there any alternatives?

[cameron02]

Not up to getting insurance yet but....... I did do a little bit of research and most of the places I contacted actually go through Shannons anyway.

How much did Shannons quote you?

Cameron

[Shelby400]

They wanted about $750. I have since found a company in Perth called Famous and they will do it for about $450.00. BIG difference.

[Leeroy]

I haven't finished my project but have insured it with Shannons for $40k replacement fire/theft. They said that it would be around $450 full cover 10k klm per year travel. So havent come to fully ins. a finished cobra so I will wait and see. The fact that I ins. at this early stage may have assisted cheaper finished price??

[Adrian S]

Just make sure you check all the terms & conditions. You never get anything for free. Shannons have a pretty good policy whcih gives you first salvage rights. They also seem geniunly interested in the cars they insure.

[750hp]

I've heard good things about Torque Underwriters lately.

[Bryan Wilson]

I've been with Shannons for five years now costs about $450 with limited k's. But don't worry about that as no one asks for odometer reading so it is totaly unenforceable.
If you are unfortunate to have an accident and the car is a write off you get the agreed amount and the wreck.
Cheers,
Bryan

[StephenC]

Bryan:

I obviously do not know how your Aussie insurance companies work. But, here's what I was told by an American company about limited mileage.

In most cases, limited mileage will not be an issue.....until you file a claim. The larger the claim, the harder the insurance company will look for a way to avoid paying it.

For example:

If you're allowed 3,000 miles per year and have had the car for 5 years, no one will be checking the odometer. If, you are involved in a crash and file a claim, they may very well make your mileage an issue, especially if it's more than 15,000. If the claim involves a total replacement of your car as well as possible legal action due to injuries or death, they will look for every (any) reason not to pay.

I was told it would be cheaper to pay for extra mileage to cover my use than risk the insurance company refusing to pay a claim based on mileage.

Just a thought.

Best wishes,

[klayfish]

Stephen, who told you that? If I had a dollar for every time I heard that.... In reality, that is not true at all.

The mileage limitation is very much enforcable, so be careful with it.

I don't know much about Austrialian rules in insurance, but as has been said, just be very careful about the policy you buy and read it carefully. If you violate the terms of it, they can and likely will, have a legally valid reason to deny coverage. Just be careful.

Best of luck.

Steve

[StephenC]

Steve:

Maybe I wasn't real clear (obviously I wasn't), but that was exactly my point. Mileage limitations ARE enforceable. They just don't become an issue until a claim is filed. If you have more miles than you're allowed, then don't be surprised when the insurance company refuses to pay a claim.

Sorry for the confusion.

[750hp]

Oh.... should I hook up my speedo after all then? I like the look of all those 000000s on the odometer

[StephenC]

Craig:

No need to connect the speedo as long as you're sure you will never file a claim. LOL Being invloved in a crash with a car that has 000000 miles on it shouldn't be too hard to explain. Should it?

Steve:

I got to thinking about the guys who claim mileage limitations can't be enforced. These are the very same guys who will laugh and tell you "use" limitations can't be enforced either. They think they're fooling the insurance company when they're only fooling themselves.

By "use" I mean restrictions on how and when the car can be driven. Many "collector-type" policies limit the car to being driven to very specific types of events (car shows, concours, club activities, parades, etc.) The policies go on to prohibit driving to work or school, errands, common use, or a whole lot of other types of driving. Guys seem to think if they have an "accident" while engaged in prohibited driving (maybe like just cruising around), the insurance company will never know or accept some lame story the car was being driven to a car show at 11:30 PM on a Tuesday night. Remember, these policies are generally much cheaper than "regular" insurance for a reason. A great deal only IF you stay within the restrictions.

Bottom line: If your claim is big enough (death or injury involved?), an insurance company will go to great lengths to investigate, hoping to find you were in violation (ANY violation) of their policy. They have, or will hire investigators, who will talk to your neighbors, check your car club's activity schedule, talk to your mechanic, talk to your boss and check your timecard, speak with the kid who carried out your groceries and stood and talked to you about your car, and anyone else who can show that your story just doesn't add up. It takes a skilled investigator less than an hour to disprove most of these concocted stories. An unskilled investigator, maybe two hours.

Often, these investigations are over after the first meeting. You know, the one where the investigator explains to the owner the concept of "Insurance Fraud", a crime in most states. I know, a lot of retired police officers go to work for auto insurance companies as investigators (mostly related to vehicle arsons). The last thing insurance companies do is write the check.

Best piece of insurance advice I ever got? Insure the car for how it will be used. If you're not sure what your policy says, get it out and read it. If you don't know how your company defines certain terms (like pleasure driving or regular use), find out now, before it's too late. Compared to what most of us have invested in these cars (both monetarily and emotionally), good insurance that fully covers how the car is used isn't that expensive when compared to the alternative.

But, none of this matters if you're never gonna' file a claim.



I'm not trying to scare anyone or trying to force my ideas on this subject on others. I just don't want anyone to be disappointed when it comes time to get their "baby" repaired and their insurance company says, "No way, not gonna' happen!".

[concobra]

To Stephen C.

Being the son of an insurance agent your exactly right. Insurance companies are not in business because they are easy to fool. If you think you can get away with not living up to your part of the insurance policy/CONTRACT your will be sadly mistaken when you file a claim.

As the old saying goes. No can't beat a man at his own game.

[klayfish]

Steve,
Very good insight. I happen to be one of those investigators. Really. I work as a Special Investigator for an auto insurance company, who writes several different types of policies. One of them is among the larger classic/specialty insurance policies in the country.

I can tell you for an absolute fact, I do not get a file refered to me on the basis alone of the potential dollar amount of the claim. It is only refered to me if the initial adjuster recognizes a potential coverage violation or other "red flag". Yes, if needed, we will talk to whomever we have to get to the truth. We have a lot of tools at our disposal to investigate the claim. But that's exactly it...we're trained to find the truth. Nothing more, nothing less. Not save the company money or deny a claim. If we owe it, we pay it. If we have a valid basis to deny coverage, then that's what we have to do. Actually, whenever possible, we try to give our customers the benefit of the doubt.

There are checks and balances to ensure that insurance companies don't just deny claims just to try to save money. If we improperly deny coverage, the fines and suits we will be slapped with are multiple, multiple times more costly than what the original claim was. One poorly handled denial could cost the company more money than they save in a hundred proper ones, so in reality, we are very careful before denying coverage.

Steve

[StephenC]

Steve:

It wasn't my intent to give the impression that insurance companies will try to "weasel" out of paying if the claim is legitimate. And, as a retired state trooper, I recognize the role of an investigator is to find the the truth (or attempt to) and pass those findings along to others who are the real "decision-makers".

I do believe, however, that many insurance companies may be more prone to take a second (or third) look at a claim where there is the potential for an unusually large payout. Like cases where their client has been involved in a crash that resulted in serious injury or death and a future BIG lawsuit is a foregone conclusion. Certainly, the initial adjuster's suspicions play an important part in "red flagging" such claims.

I also believe that most insurance companies will not hesitate to pay a reasonable claim as long as they cannot prove there was a policy violation. But, if there is reason to think there was a policy violation, they will go after your proverbial throat. Like sharks and blood.

My real point of that rather lengthy dissertation was that the guys who think they can get away with not meeting the conditions of their policies (whatever they may be) will probably be unpleasantly surprised if and when they ever file a claim. In truth, all the things they think can never be enforced are really pretty easy to check.

If it were not so, there would be no insurance companies.

Best Wishes,

[cameron02]

There are not many insurance companies in Australia that will insure a kit car.

I told Shannons I wanted to insure it as a daily driver and they refused. In fact every company I contacted refused. I'm 38 yrs old with an excellent driving record.

So what can you do?

Basically they are happy to take your money, but hey your not allowed to actually drive the car!

Cameron

[klayfish]

Steve,
Sorry. It's hard to project intent on a keyboard. My response was not at all meant to be sarcastic. It really was insightfull. Most people don't even know we Investigators exist. Well...not until they have to deal with us. I was impressed you knew about us and what we do. But if you are a retired trooper, I'm sure you've spoken to us in the past.

All the nitty gritty of it is very detailed and would takes pages to explain, so I'll spare the boredom. In a nutshell, each insurance company is different in how they do it. For example, in my company, I am the decision maker. I do the investigation, and with the approval of my supervisor, it is my decision to pay, deny or otherwise. Some companies are set up like us, others are not. Some have their investigators do the legwork and turn it over to the decision makers you describe. But from all the companies I have spoken to, and I've spoken to pretty much all the big ones, I don't know of any of them that refer a file on the basis of a large exposure alone. When a huge exposure is there, it is followed by management. And truthfully, if there is a policy violation, it does not always mean coverage denial. Again, it's complicated, but it depends on the violation. Some violations are deemed irrelevant to the claim and therefore would not be enforced.

If you're a retired trooper, you sould keep your eyes out. As you said, many insurance companies hire guys like you (my boss is a retired Philly homicide guy..he was pretty high up in rank).

Steve

[StephenC]

Steve:

I retired from the Michigan State Police on February 25, 2002, after 25 years and 3 days of service. When I retired I was a F/Lieutenant in charge of MSP Statewide Operations and was a member of the Michigan Terrorism Taskforce and Team Leader of the Michigan State Police Terrorism Operations Group. I had a great career in law enforcement, but it was just time to move on to something else (I am now a professional video photographer).

BTW: The Michigan State Police were modeled after Pennsylvania State Police who are recognized as the first modern state police agency in the country. We occasionally had contact with them and they were always very professional and great to work with.

And yes, before I got promoted to sergeant and left field operations, it was not unusual to have contact with various insurance investigators. Insurance fraud is big business, at least here in Michigan.

To our Aussie Friends:

I came into this thread through the CC homepage. I did not notice until late last night that this is actually the Australian Club forum and not an open forum. My apologies for using your forum as if I'm a member. Sorry...........

Best wishes,