Engines.

[Jase]

At the moment it seems like all I do is eat, sleep, and think about what I want to do with my Cobra. I'm kind of getting a rough idea of what chassis/body I want to purchase - Classic Revival - so I've turned my attention towards moving that chassis and body.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the barra 240T around here. Any reason for that? Don't like Turbos? Don't like 6 cylinders? In any event, the 240T isn't the most powerful of engines, although it does have a decent amount of pulling power.

Surprisingly enough the boss 260 has around the same power and torque as the barra. In fact the ford engines only get interesting once you head over to FPV. Now the boss 290 looks more like an engine I wouldn't mind having underneath me ... err, in front of me. Even the 6's don't look too bad from FPV - heaps of torque, more than the boss 290, and almost as much power. And you can't forget what DJR have done with the boss engine - 320kw and 540nm of torque.

Of course you can't forget the Holdens. And what I wouldn't do to get my hands on a 6.0L LS2 putting out a whooping 335kw and 605nm. I know its only in a concept at the moment, but sooner or later such output will make it to the production engines. And by the time I have my Cobra in a condition to fit an engine, who knows what sort of outputs we'll be looking at!

So can anyone elaborate on the engine choices available, it'd be much appreciated.

[Rebel1]

Hehehe Jase, the cobra afflicion affects ya bad hey?

One of the problems which confronts many of us in choice of engine has to do with what fits...By that I'm saying the engine in a cobra squeezes between the foot boxes.

Depending on the footboxes in the kit you buy, will also have a bearing on which motor/motors you can use.

My RMC for instance, is more often fitted with a 302 Winsor....However, the #8 spark plug requires you to be a contortionist to replace it. Many an RMC is running around with an "old" plug in #8 cylinder.

This is a major PITA when, in my case, I wanted to re-fit a 351, which is a little wider and higher. This meant cutting and glassing which in itself is a PITA. Not so much with the glass work but with the alloy panels etc. to hide the insulation.

The new Ford engines look delightful, but are very wide, and to a large extent is why many are fitting the narrower and lighter LS1's.

[750hp]

When comparing the 5.0L windsor to the new Ford DOHC motor, you have the width problems that Les mentioned. They are bloody huge in every way.

Depending on budget, if I were building a new Cobra now, it'd either be a turbocharged Lexus DOHC (like Scott OZVENOM), or a supercharged LS1 (like Garrett JUSTBETTER).

...... or I'd just say to heck with emissions and fit an 8000rpm, 410 cube 13:1 compression Sprint Car motor making 800+hp !!!

[Jase]

So I guess there isn't really much choice in engines these days? The LS1 route seems the best, but something just doesn't seem right putting such an engine in such a car - I'm trying my hardest to resist the dark side, I really am, but everything I've read here the last week is really starting to enlighten me to the life of the dark side.

And if I go the dark route, I may as well go the whole way and build a DRB with there nice, modern dash.

I somehow think I will be building more than just one of these things.

[PCC]

Steady Jase....don't go overboard.

No matter what the darkside intimate the Cobra is a Ford (well the engine is anyway).

A preformed dash - hmmmm not traditional, but at least I have a Ford cluster



Personal choice mate - buy it, build it, DRIVE it.

Mike - no reply required.

Les - support only.

Bern - wet or what (who cares?)

[Aussie Mike]

Jase,

Since you are in Victoria you still have the option of building a small block Ford powered car. The 5.0 Windsor is still legal till the end of this year.

In Victoria we have a 3 year grace period for registration provided you can prove you have started your car before the end of this year. This means getting an egineer engaged into the project and having a chassis that was built before 1st Jan 2005.

Pete, Just because I'm pro-LS1 doesn't mean I'm anti-Ford. I love my fords and I'd love to see more Ford powered Cobras on the road (It means there's more easy beats out there for us LS1 powered boys)

Cheers

[vettestr]

This one is 542 inches from Scott Shafiroff Engines . You can now get them at over 600 cubic inches. Lots of fun at only 542 !! http://www.shafiroff.com/540_sportsengine.asp

[Aussie Mike]

Jeff,

Unfortunately there's not much chance of being able to register a Cobra with that engine in Australia. I've got a BB Chev in the back of the shed and was planning to run it originally.

Our emissions and registration laws require an engine that meets the current emissions regs for new cars. Even though it's a replica of a 1966 vehicle the authorities consider it a new car and it must meet all of the registration requirements of a new car.

You could run an older design engine provided you could get it to pass the current emissions regs but it's very expensive to get an engine tested and certified. This puts it beyond the finances uf of us meer mortals. Robnel went through this procees to get the 429 BB Ford certified with their 8TB injection and Motec ECU but it cost them a lot of money. Also the Emissions laws change at the end of this year to the even more stringent Euro 3 spec.

If only the Cobra had been built before 1958 then we would be considered a Hot Rod and under a much more lenient set of rules.

Cheers

[vettestr]

Hey Mike,
Tryed to send you a PM but was kicked back because your box is full or so the note stated.
How about if built on an earlier chassis ???? I build my production kit based on the C3 Vette chassis. If you had a Toy with and early 70's chassis would you be able to comply with as marketed US smog standards? I build a Hot Rod version of the Cobra with 98 inch wheelbase and the vette had some nasty little and big blocks from the factory even in the early 70's that had little AS PRODUCED smog equipment. If your standards would allow the US standards for year produced you could run some wild combinations and be compliant !!

[Aussie Mike]

Yep, I think that would be OK as the car would be considered as a rebodied older car.

The thing is that C3 Vettes sell for almost as much as cobras down here. Kind of a shame to chop one up. I guess there must be a few smashed ones around that could be brought in.

Cheers

[vettestr]

I am no fan of cutting up a bumper car either BUT if wrong engine ,fender flares or used up body that is not used anyway why not? On the other hand GM made over 542,000 C3 -vettes and the smogger years, say 76,77 etc DRIVERS are only worth maybe 4K if a high miles car and used up condition. Selling all un-used body and parts will get your original cost back. Find an old project or blown engine or broken fenders and price is 1500 tops. All the chassis parts are replaced with exchange rebuilt parts so used up parts not a problem. Car can be built for 22K with a crate engine-tranny- painted going down the road on rebuilt chassis !!

[Jase]

Mike, since there's no chance of me starting this project by the end of this year let alone finishing it within 3 years, its safe to say that I won't be installing a 5.0L windsor! Looks as though the LS1 is the way to go.

Damn, the dark side is strong.

All joking aside, at the end of the day, I want the best/most powerful engine I can *legally* put in the car.

[Rebel1]

Originally posted by Aussie Mike



If only the Cobra had been built before 1958 then we would be considered a Hot Rod and under a much more lenient set of rules.

I agree Mike.....BUT!!!!!

If the hot rod community can do the homework to get emission exemptions...then why can't the combined cobra clubs in Australia???.

This subject has been boiling away for a long time and it's a credit to the hot rod community that they found a way around the bureaucracy.

This is exactly what the cobra community HAS to do for the good of the members and growth in the industry. The kit manufacturers have to get behind this and join forces as an industry, if they are going to survive.

Elsewise, eventually, what will happpen is that our little cars will have to have things like multi airbags, ABS, and all manner of modern crap before we will be able to register them.

End result.....too expensive and too technical for the kit buyer....end of industry .

Go on...just ask me if I got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

[ledge]

Jase .
I was origonaly going to use a Ford motor but ended up on the dark side for more reasons than it is easier to get through rego like for example, More power , Lighter , Looks better need i go on .
At the end of the day you not building a Ford car anyway you will be building a Jase and im building a Ledge and all the other guys here are building there own car also ,Its just we chose to use a fibre glass body that resembles a 1960,s race car .
So the best bet is to put in what you want in it .

By the way you should be able to use older motors i know here in SA you can use any motor you want but if it is older than i think 1995 it has to run on gas alone with no fuel tank in the car at all .Then it will pass current emmission laws .And all your motor needs to do is pass current emmision laws

Paul

[Aussie Mike]

Ledge,

I chose the LS1 for the similar reasons. Yes I like the Ford Windsor but I think it's near the peak of it's development curve. There's aftermarket everything available for it. You can build a Ford Winsor without using any Ford parts at all.

The LS1 is currently still near the bottom of it's development curve and it's already more than a match for the Windsor in power output, weight, strength and reliability. Over the next 10 years or so we are going to see a huge ammount of R&D into this motor from both GM and the aftermarket. There is a huge ammount of untapped potential left in this motor and I'm looking forward to seeing and sampling some of the developments.

Les,

I fully agree with you but there seems to be a streak of complacency running through the clubs and manufactureres. The rodders started out with pre '48 rules and got them pushed up to '58. I'd like to see the cut off pushed up to '68.

Cheers

[tonyvda]

I went for a modern BMW V8 engine, had to use cats and the like, but its not an insurmountable problem if the engine can physically fit into the engine bay and frame. ( The engine part of the build will inevitably be a lot more complex however because the control and computer systems of modern power units are exceedingly complex, but once they are sorted living with them is a piece of cake.)

Benefits include economy ( 26mpg at 90+ mph) reliability, novelty ( first thing anyone says on opening the bonnet is "f---ing hell" ), a terrifically smooth drive, gobs of power and a Tiptronic box to play with when I'm bored with cruising.

I'm now planning my second build(s) and am looking at modern Lexus, Jaguar or BMW motive power again ( the Lexus Turbo route a la Ozvenom is very, very tempting).

Why use old inefficient "boat anchors" that have to have large capacities and further expensive tuning to get anything like respectable BHP per litre figures if it doesnt float your boat.

Some guys like the USA iron approach, the lumpy idle, the continual battle with carbs and ignitions, its all part of the fun. I simply prefer the sophistication of modern engineering mated to a fantastic timeless shape.

Cheers,

Tony

[vettestr]

So gentlemen after seeing the wide variety of iron/aluminum used on your side of the big pond, I gotta ask who has the wildest engine in terms of corrected brake Horsepower? What engine and goodies have been added to be the big dog? Need or desire is the mother of invention. Have already heard of some very impessive Australian builds but would love to learn about and hear.more

[Aussie Mike]

Queensland is probably leading the way in the HP stakes. Craig (750HP) would probably have about the wildest Cobra in Australia with his Vortec blown SVO windsor stroker. Scotts (OzVenom) single Turbo lexus is no slouch and there's a twin turbo Lexus motor in 400TTs Cobra.

There's a few wild ones down in Victoria too. There's a twin turbo 5.0 windsor that recently made 600hp at the rear wheels.. Garrett's Procharger blown LS1 made 552HP at the rear wheels at a dyno day earlier this year.

I'm sure there are some other wild combinations around as well.

Cheers

[PCC]

Mike,

Add another 100HP onto Craig's.

There has to be a reason for that inverted surfboard on the bonnet (hood)

[Aussie Mike]

I remember Craig's engine made well over 800HP on the dyno but I couldn't remember if he was running that tune or a "safe one" in the car.

Craig, When are you gona get that monster on the rollers and tell us what it makes at the rear wheels?

Cheers