I Need The Old Blokes Help On This

[stiffy]

The recent DYNO DAY got me thinking.........


I was very impressed with the standard LS1 HP and Torque..

My question, what did the standard 302w/302c carby/injected
351w/351c carby/injected

have in HP and Torque when they were new.....



If the old blokes have forgotten,then I am sure Aussie Mike
will know


STIFFY

[TMK 2002]

302W injected had 175kw factory... but it depends on what model you got... there was a 5.0HO and XR8 motor & American options...

The old GTHO 351C motor had 125kw I think, O didnt know if they made them as injected.

[TMK 2002]

Im sure there are a heap of options for each motor... depending on if they had a 2brl or 4brl carb etc...

[Rebel1]

Oi Stiffy, The way I read the results yours came in top of the NA list.

The only one with more was blown.

I was super impressed with your results.

But then I am a little biased

[Tony Cram]

Stiffy,

Found this in a couple of ford forums. GTHO phase III specs with 351C 4V 780 cfm carby

Type: Conventional, watercooled, four-stroke, reciprocating piston type
Capacity: 5.763 litres (351 ci)
Number of cylinders: 8
Configuration: Front mounted, longitudinal, 90 degree vee
Head design: Pushrod and rocker actuated overhead valve with hydraulic lifters
Fuel system: Holley 780 cfm four barrel downdraught carburettor.
Bore and stroke: 4.00 x 3.50 inches (101.6 mm x 89.0 mm)
Power output (DIN): 370 - 390 bhp (276 -291 kW) at 5400 rpm
Torque (DIN): 380 lb/ft (513 Nm) at 3400 rpm
Compression ratio: 11.5:1 (varies by 0.5)

Impressive from the factory in the early seventies.

Cheers

TC

[TMK 2002]

I thought that the factory 'printed' figure was as low as 125kw and the official figure was more similar to the figures above...

[stiffy]

What does DIN mean (fly wheel?)

Why does the HP vary by 20????

[Rebel1]

SAE Net Horspower
In 1972, American manufacturers phased in SAE net horsepower. This is the standard on which current American ratings are based. This rating is measured at the flywheel, on an engine dyno, but the engine is tested with all accessories installed, including a full exhaust system, all pumps, the alternator, the starter, and emissions controls. Both SAE net and SAE gross horsepower test procedures are documented in Society of Automotive Engineers standard J1349. Because SAE net is so common, this is the standard we will use to compare all others.

SAE Gross Horsepower
This is the old process that American manufacturers used as a guide for rating their cars. It was in place until 1971. SAE gross also measures horsepower at the flywheel, but with no accessories to bog it down. This is the bare engine with nothing but the absolute essentials attached to it; little more than a carb, fuel pump, oil pump, and water pump. Because the test equipment on the engine is not the same as in SAE net, it is impossible to provide a mathematical calculation between SAE net and SAE gross. As a general rule, however, SAE net tends to be approximately 80% of the value of SAE gross. SAE J245 and J1995 define this measurement.

DIN Horsepower
This is a standard, DIN 70020, for measuring horsepower that very closely matches SAE net. The conditions of the test vary slightly, but the required equipment on the engine and the point of measurement (flywheel) remains the same. Because the test conditions are so similar, it is safe to divide DIN horsepower by 1.0139 to arrive at SAE net. This value is so close to equal that for all but the most technical purposes DIN and SAE net are interchangeable.

[Tony Cram]

Stiffy,

GT Specs from Ford.

289 - 4 barrel carby - XR GT
225bhp (168kw) & 414Nm

302 - 4 Barrel carby - XT GT
230bhp (172kw) & 420Nm

XW GT
351W - 450cfm carby
290bhp (216kw) & 522Nm
351W - 600 Holley - XW Phase 1
300bhp (224kw) & 515Nm
351C - 650 Holley - XW Phase II
300bhp (224kw) & 515Nm

as above
XY GT
351C - 600cfm Autolite Carby
300bhp (224kw) & 515Nm

XY GTHO Phase III
as above
351C - 780 Holley
370 - 390bhp estimated (276 - 291kw) & 515Nm
Phase III HP never quoted officially by Ford

Trying to get differences between 302C and 302W. Holley spec manual I have quotes 302 with 600cfm Holley of around 270bhp? (not sure on this one!!!)

Cheers


TC

[Aussie Mike]

Those figures quoted are all flywheel numbers where as the Dyno results were rear wheel.

As a rule of thumb what the engine produces at the flywheel is what it will make in HP at the rear wheels.

For example the 347 windsor in my Pursuit made 196KW at the rear wheels at a dyno day last year. This equates to about 262HP at the rear wheels (KW to HP is x 1.34). The Pursuit is suposed to make 250 KW at the flywheel standard but mine has a cat back exhaust on it so is probably making a bit more.

Those were some impressive number out of your motor Stiffy regardless of the badge on it.

The Commodore guys have been getting as much as 250KW at the rear wheels out of a stock unopened LS1. Just careful tuning and a good exhaust and cold air intake. A change of cam can easily push that into the 270-300KW depending on how lumpy it is. I think part of the reason is the LS1 cylinder head design. They flow huge numbers straight out of the box.

Cheers

[AC302]

So based on Tony's info my 302 boss with a 600 edelbrock on top that only produced 185hp at the rear wheels should have a lot more???

JB

[TMK 2002]

Originally posted by AC302


So based on Tony's info my 302 boss with a 600 edelbrock on top that only produced 185hp at the rear wheels should have a lot more???

JB

Here I was thinking you just had a little stocker

I'll get you next time GADGET!!!