Gilmer drive for an AU V8

minivan · #1 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 01:06 AM

Afternnon boys,

i'm having a little trouble sorting out a gilmer drive system for my AU V8,

seeing as an AU runs a serpentine belt system, the water pump rotate opposite to the way it would with a gilmer drive. (runs on the backside of the belt normally

how have people overcome this?
one theory was to use an older timing cover and 70s water pump, but that leads to troubles with the crank angle sensor mounting (we are using factory computer)

the older water pumps (clockwise ones) have a different mounting.. this same drama would be for all 90s windsors (not just AU's)

also, do i just machine the 6v pully off the front of the harmonic balancer? and tap it for the gilmer pulley to bolt onto?

Aussie Mike · #2 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 03:55 AM

The serpentine belt setups run the water pump backwards on the LS1 as well. I ran up against this problem when I wanted to tidy up my belt setup.

The Ford motors at least have the option of running a conventional rotation water pup from the earlier model. It shouldn't be to hard to fabricate another mount for the crank angle sensor.

Just reversing the rotation won't work because the impeller will be pumping the water round the wrong way. You could try what I did and machine up an impeller with the vanes running the other way.

Here's the one I did for mine

Cheers

simon clemens · #3 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 05:39 AM

I'm using a 1995 5L windsor, I came to the same problem when wanting a nonmal rotation pump. I have fitted a 351 cleveland (older style pump) bolted straight to the late model 5L timing cover. Bolt pattern was the same, however I modified the sandwich plate to open up the coolent ports a little more. Had to make 1 new gasket to fit the modified sandwich plate... thats all, no leaks.
And port matched with a die grinder, this bit was me being fussy.

Simmo

minivan · #4 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 06:30 AM

cheers, have you got a mustang motor or a falcon motor?

did you have to machine the original crank pulley off the harmonic balancer?

minivan · #5 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 09:42 PM

mike, do you treat every piece you do like an artwork? thats fantastic.. bit out of my league. there should be an oe solution to this..

Aussie Mike · #6 (**permalink**) 08-08-2005, 09:54 PM

Making all the bits is a big part of the fun for me. I'll be sad when it's all finished and running. I'll have to look for a new project to make bits for.

Got a picture of your existing setup showing the crank trigger location etc?

Cheers

minivan · #7 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 01:46 AM

what do you do for a living if you can fabricate parts like that?

wanna do a water pump for me?

simon clemens · #8 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 05:55 AM

Minivan, I have a mustang 5L, and just bolted the crank pulley to the harmonic balancer... no machining was needed.
I was going to use the 351 C crank pulley & water pump pulley as they fitted correctly, but I have now machiened a new crank pulley as I wanted to reduce the RPM of the power steering pump.

So you live in WA? Are you a member of the WA Cobra Car Club? Do I know you? as I'm a member and only know you as Minivan on this site.

Simmo

Aussie Mike · #9 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by minivan

what do you do for a living if you can fabricate parts like that?

wanna do a water pump for me?

I work as a systems engineer in telecommunications. I learned the machining and welding stuff py playing around with the equipment and reading a few books. I think I missed my calling in life cause I enjoy doing this stuff a lot more than my real job.

Sorry, I haven't got a lot of spare time to do a pump impeller. By the sounds of it you should be able to find an OEM solution though.

Cheers

BMK · #10 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 05:16 PM

Ooooh hell...

I just checked out the LS1: Powered by the Dark.......

What can I say.

Hav'nt seen it yet..

...then click on Mike's link above.

Enough to make a Ford powered Cobra owner roll on the floor in laughter...

Sizzler · #11 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 06:27 PM

Is there some reason you don't want to use an electric water pump? Would simplify things a lot. Could even remote mount it out of the way of everything else for a cleaner look.

minivan · #12 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 07:01 PM

no reason, just looking at options

apparently the water pump is the least of my worries

the AU crank pulley is going to be the big problem. no meat to mount the gilmer pulley to,
the thing is one big cast item, the 6v pulley is cast integral to the balancer. even if i machine it off.. there is a big hole where the pulley needs to bolt to

i cant use an EL crank pulley (same weightage on the balance) because it doesnt have the disc on the back for the crank angle sensor..

an easy solution would be to just run the OE location of the alternator and just get a shorter 6v belt to knock the air con and power steering out of the equation. (perfornce shop recommended it as thats what they do when the dyno their cars)

i'm not a memeber of the WA cobra club.. we went down to a show and shine at burswood early this year.. i asked a guy with a 5L windsor like mine to fire up the car, i have this engine sitting in my garage and i'm dying to hear what it sounds like through side pipes, he asked one of the officials.. he said yeah cool.. then some old bugger in the tent comes running out of the tent screaming at us.. YOU DO NOT TURN ON THE CAR AT A SHOW AND SHINE!!!!..

was funny.. i didnt want to be part of a club that was so anal about such things though.. car lovers down in the park for a chat and showing interest in each others cars..

there were a million people about 5k's up the bank watching some boat racing.. if everyone fired up and gave a bit of a rev.. the club could have had a bit of interest and a good showout!

ahwell.. so thats why i didnt join the club... correct me if i'm worng please!..

minivan · #13 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 07:04 PM

one note, if i go back to the EL crank pulley to be able to mount the gilmer drive, then i would need to either mount the crank angle sensor's disc on the back of it somehow (havent seen an EL pulley so not sure how) or remove the crank angle sensor and go back to a dizzy (dont really want to do that) i like the ignition pack setup.

i didnt go an AU XR8 motor for nothing

Rebel1 · #14 (**permalink**) 08-09-2005, 07:22 PM

Bernie...
Bernie...

You are a very norty lad.

What makes you think the dark side has it all wrong.

What makes you think they are a bunch of mis-led misfits.

Mike said it himself on the darkside LS1 page ......

Quote . "I'm an unconvetional person so the idea of sticking a modern high tech GM motor in a car traditionally powered by an old low tech Ford motor is very apealing."

unquote.

Just cuz they can't spell dont mean they don't know one motor from the next.

I'm gonna hide again!!

simon clemens · #15 (**permalink**) 08-10-2005, 06:09 AM

Minivan

I think a correction is needed,

Yeh’ I agree with you about starting the car up, would be nice to hear a few RPM’s at the show… However the old bugger (whoever that was?) was just trying to protect the public liability, as Burswood is very particular about a lot of weird things. The thing is, its not the club’s fault that it was so ANAL, it’s the Management at Burswood… if our club doesn’t follow Burswood’s strict rules, well then we will not be able to have our club show there. We used to have the show at the esplanade in Freo, but where kicked out for similar rule bending. So it really is not a bad club at all! I guess you had a bad taste the first time, how about giving it a second chance?
The club has always been friendly and functional with runs and outings to all sorts of places.

Simmo

minivan · #16 (**permalink**) 08-10-2005, 08:05 PM

ok, fair call.. my dads the owner of the car.. i just do all the work

i will have a word to him..
maybe the club should go somehwere like bassendean oval for gatherings then. arent we all about big engines, big power and big pipes?

it did appear to be snotty old men polishing their sports cars that never come out of the garage.
not the mid life crisis mobiles doing burnouts in the carpark it should be.

the cars were gorgeous and the people were friendly. and i would like to get the help and advice from people in the same boat.. almost feel like we're the only people doing this sometimes..

is the club affiliated with the kit manufacturers at all? i want to avoid going to them unless i have to as thats an expensive and far too easy way of building this car

simon clemens · #17 (**permalink**) 08-11-2005, 05:21 AM

The club is seperate to any sort of organization, it originally started specifically for cobra builders and owners that shared a common interest. We have over 50 members in the club... there is always orgainised outings and monthly meetings.
Well I'm not old and snotty, so much so that I'm putting in steel rear tubs so I'm not afraid of my glass shell being torn appart when I shred the tyres!!
You are so right... it is all about big engines, big power and big pipes... why else would I want to build one?

The club is a great sorce of information for finding out stuff, some people have been there and done it before... these are the members to talk too.

Simmo

minivan · #18 (**permalink**) 08-11-2005, 06:30 AM

i'm sold, whens the next meeting?

simon clemens · #19 (**permalink**) 08-11-2005, 06:55 AM

Next club meet is on the 24 August Wednesday @ 7.30pm. At the Veteran Car Club Rooms, Corner of Hale Rd & Tonkin Hwy, Forrestfield.
Has a big double wire gate at the enterance and a small Veteran sign on the fence. It is a little hard to find at first as it is hidden away from the road.
If you are heading south on Tonkin turn right into Hale Rd, and the club rooms are on your left side about 100m down the road.
Our last meeting was the AGM and one of our members filled the room with pictures and cobra items, was a good night.

Perhaps see you there,

Simmo

minivan · #20 (**permalink**) 08-12-2005, 09:33 PM

yeah i know where it is.. my grandfather is building a 26 chrysler and hes a member of the veteran car club

i shall see you there