2002 - 2004 genIII

[boxhead]

Hey there everyone, My memory is failing as I get older (must be that beer in alluminium can thing)
I was asked in a pm regarding if Holden recognise the 2002 - 2004 gen III as being the same.
The answer is yes.
Holden list a 2002 - 2004 VY Commodore upto engine number VF040340740 as part number 92065957.
when buying a replacement engine you are to use part number 92066129 which is also for 2002 - 2004 VY-V2

I can fax this info to whomever requires it.

Again I am sorry for not remembering who it was, with the site troubles the PM has gone.

[Beejay]

That was me!!!!

Woohoo

You might have just saved me quite a few bucks.

I will send you another pm with my details.

Cheers,

Ben

[Plums]

Sounds like good news there Ben Do you want me to go ahead and program your PCM and send it back to you???

[Beejay]

Better hang on for a week until I check with the engineer.

Thanks Plums

[boxhead]

No worries Ben, I thought it was you but not 100%
I will fax you the partfinder details showing the engine to fit for these models, If it isnt enough info let me know and I will see what else I can find.

[400TT]

How complete do engines come when ordered with these part numbers?

The emission compliance of an engine is the entire assembly - plenum, ecu etc etc. Obviously anything that can alter emmissions.

2002-2004 could be the same part number as far as base engine assembly goes, but if they are not complete, then the extra parts would also need to be checked to see if they remained the same as well.

Mind you just showing the same part numbers for base engine assembly could be enough for some engineers, unless they are really on the ball.

Or if I'm rambling just ignore me...

[boxhead]

The engines come complete from sump to intake and injectors, the only things you need to buy seperatly are : mounts, starter, alternator, wiring & ecu

[400TT]

Wow, they are a lot more complete than I thought.

Well the question is, are the ECU's the same as well?

[Beejay]

Pretty sure the ECU is different.

I am sure mine is a 2004 unit.

Ben

[Cobra.au]

The older ecu were mounted in the passengers foot well now they are in the engine bay

[Plums]

Ben, your PCM is definitely a 04, or at least it soon will be...

[boxhead]

The ecu's are the same, the diferences come in the software.

[Tenrocca]

So basically the only difference between a 2002 LS1 and a 2004 LS1 is the tune on the ECU? Of which our resident certified LS1 tuner can program to 2004 specs (well....sorta)?

[Beejay]

OK,

Spoke to Kevin @ Laksedge Engineering today about a few things:

My 2002 engine should be OK if the info from Holden is clear that the 2002 engine meets the same emission standard as a 2004. Boxhead, do you know if there is a document that states this??

He recently put through an LS1 Cobra with a 5 year old engine and the RTA has requested that it be emissions tested.

Plums, better give me a stock 2004 tune for now.

Other things he answered that may interest the NSW guys.

He is OK with my centralised dash layout, as long as the speedo is easily viewed and on the right side of the car.

Original bonnet locks are still a pedestrian hazard, so put them on later.

The driveby noise test is 74 db. He does not think any Cobra will pass without lots of noise proofing in the right areas.

Kevin does his testing at Oran Park, it depends on how many he fits in as to when it happens. If I fail a noise test he is happy to re do that near his workshop.

He wants about $1700 for the certificates these days.

I had better get to work if I have any chance of finishing this year!

Ben

[Philm]

HI Ben,
I have heard that to go thru emission testing is very expensive and time consuming and It would be very hard to pass, try to avoid doing this as best you can.

You may find that the cost of swapping your engine may be the cheapest option if they ask you to emission test because of its year model.

This whole game is all about getting the car passed, don't put any obstacles in your way.

My 2 cents


Phil

[Cobra.au]

Originally Posted by Beejay

OK,

Spoke to Kevin @ Laksedge Engineering today about a few things:

My 2002 engine should be OK if the info from Holden is clear that the 2002 engine meets the same emission standard as a 2004. Boxhead, do you know if there is a document that states this??

He recently put through an LS1 Cobra with a 5 year old engine and the RTA has requested that it be emissions tested.

Plums, better give me a stock 2004 tune for now.

Other things he answered that may interest the NSW guys.

He is OK with my centralised dash layout, as long as the speedo is easily viewed and on the right side of the car.

Original bonnet locks are still a pedestrian hazard, so put them on later.

The driveby noise test is 74 db. He does not think any Cobra will pass without lots of noise proofing in the right areas.

Kevin does his testing at Oran Park, it depends on how many he fits in as to when it happens. If I fail a noise test he is happy to re do that near his workshop.

He wants about $1700 for the certificates these days.

I had better get to work if I have any chance of finishing this year!

Ben

Looks like you guys are getting it tough these days and $1700 wow thats gone up

[1320]

99 to 04 are interchangable. I tune gen 3's everday. Depending on the software even the vin can be changed. I can change a 02 vin pcm to a 04. I can eve change it to an 05 but a couple small things get screwy, but they still run.

I even had the state dmv say....and I quote"we know somethings wrong but we don t have the technology to prove it, so I guess your ok"

He was referring to a smog check on a 370 ls1 with stage 3 cnc heads, headers, and a 242/246 cam....it loped like crazy but still passed.

[Plums]

I can put any model software and any VIN on to the PCM. For Ben I'll load a VYII (04 model) operating system, but change the last 6 digits of the VIN to match his CR chassis number. That way if they do check it, they will find that it's definitely a 04 model PCM. Of course while I'm in there I may make some other "enhancements" as well...

On the subject of LS1 engines, 99 - 04 have three different variants.

This is for Australian delivered engines.
99 and 00 are LS1's.
01 - 03 are LS6's
04 is an LS6 with a slightly different cam profile.

99 and 00 use a 256k program (no lean cruise function, only one VE table etc.).
01 - 04 use a 512k program.
05 uses a 1024k program (for electronic throttle and other things).

Cheers,
Plums.

[Aussie Mike]

I believe the smog check in the US means plugging in to the OBD2 port and seeing if there are any emissions related trouble codes.

Probably wouldn't have passed the tail pipe sniffer with that cam in it.

Here's some usefull ECU identification info:

1999-2002 PCM
Running a 32bit Motorola Microprocessor
Flash capacity is 4Mbit (512K).
PCM HDW numbers are either 16220610 (1999-2000) or 09386530 (2001+).

2003-2004 PCM
Updated Microprocessor but is still very similar to the 1999-2002 PCM.
Flash capacity is 8Mbit (1Mb).
From the outside it looks the same as the 1999-2002 PCM except instead of a Red connector it is Green.
PCM HDW numbers could be one of the following -
12570558, 12580786, 12583659, 12583660, 12589161 or 12589162.
Note: Some of these PCM's are not interchangable between vehicle applications.

2005 LS2 ECM
LS2 ECM is known as the E40.
Has an upgraded CPU and is a completely different animal to the previous units with different connectors. This ECU also no longer does the transmission control.

Cheers

[Tenrocca]

From my little bit of research, the first model to comply with ADR 79/00 (which applies to all new models from 2003 and ALL new cars sold from 2004) was the VY series II which was launched in August 2003. This is the important thing I think - an engine that can be proven to meet this ADR - as this is the one that takes us up to the end of 2007 with the 3 yr grace period.

So does that mean the only difference between the series 1 VY and series 2 VY was the tune to meet the new ADR? Holden specs state power went from 220 to 245 kW with the S2.