Rollbar Specification Change for Wakefield and Nationals

[TUF-427]

Hi All,
I have heard along the grapevine their is new rollbar and harness specifications for cars doing 1.12 lap times and faster at Wakefield park,
Anyone got the official word on requirements?

[Philm]

HI Peter,
I have heard the same thing. Geoff Bryant would be the one to ask.

I am pretty sure this would not be a cams requirement. Cams do not require any form of roll over protection and a standard lap sash belt is fine, for road registered cars running at club level sprints.

Don't quote me on this but I think they are looking at making sure that roll bars are "true" and that an approved harness is used.

I think there are not to many cars going that quick that would not comply already.

I think it is a good thing to lift the requirements.

While we are at it, I think we should also ban the use of "race thongs"

Phil

[TUF-427]

Hey Phil,
Hows Things?
Yeah the A series we do at Warwick is a cams affiliated event,
They Do require a rollbar on an open top car I think but you can just use the lap sash belt.
The sprints at Qld Raceway are pretty much run what u brung...
Im getting around to fitting a harness soon,
My rollbar has a braced rear stay already but the front mounts are the std Drb ones,
So it may be ok but will have to check the specs...

Nice Nos install by the way........

Go the Windsors!

cheers Peter..

[Sneaky]

For Cams, road registered cars don't require roll-bars. Would support roll-bars for the quicker cars but not to cams spec, its just too hard to make fully compliant roll-bars in road cobras.

Not sure how you could police a time based measure, perhaps the roll-bar rules should just apply to cars with race rubber.

I don't think we should ban "race thongs"....just going too far

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Phil,
Sorry did't get a chance to catch up over the Nitro Champs weekend,just got too caught up in the action.What are "race thongs'?
Cheers
Brett

[400TT]

Originally Posted by BJ's Snake

What are "race thongs'?

First word I will say is footwear. Not the other type of thong.

They are thongs that you wear when you go racing. Phil's having a joke at us QLDers. I think he noticed a few of the guys racing in thongs.

[Philm]

I do understand that Cams and Andra spec roll bars and cages are almost impossible to fit to painted cobras.

I think the whole issue is about keeping the pressure on safety to make us realise that we are going faster and with that the cahnce of an incident is increased.

At shelby fest we ran with all the Andra required gear, cage, race seat, harness and arm restraints. You get a real sense of security with all of that, I am not sure I would every run on a race track without them now.

HI John, Proper fitted and approved harness for cars running race rubber, excellent idea. Maybe include arm restraints????

Brett, no worries I am sure you had a great time at Eastern Creek.

Craig, yep there the ones.

Peter, the NOS install is just to get Wazza nervous.


Phil

[400TT]

I'm all for changes like this.

But...they should give members plenty of notice. Like being told at the previous Nationals that their would be extra requirements next year.

Doing it on a time based method is seriously inadequate in my opinion.

Do the slower drivers on the track really have less risk of serious injury? Considering most of the fastest drivers have a lot of race km's under their belt, would they be any more risk. Speeds are greater of course, but they have more experience. You could argue that both ways.

Considering the Nationals are getting oversubscribed, it's a good time to bring in these measures.

Race rubber suggestion is a good start, but would it force some vehicles back to street rubber and being pushed too hard on street rubber. Do we limit the events that vehicles are allowed to compete in? e.g. limit sprints to roll cage and/or race harness only vehicles.

And what the GT40's, they are just as unsafe. Very few have rollbars. That fibreglass roof area isn't exactly structural. Most have harnesses though, thank god.

Do we work on a point system? So many points for what level roll cage you have? So many points for level of harness? So many points for wrist restraints? So many points for race clothing - suits, gloves etc? So many points for race seats? You've just got to meet the minimum level of points.

It also wouldn't hurt to have trophy/s or rewards for the safest Cobras. A good way to help promote safety at the event.

[richardferguson]

Safest Cobra Craig? Mmmmm....maybe the ones left at home. Seriously it is an important issue, however the regulations currently in place and the way our events are run seem to keep us in one piece. One can't escape the fact we are participating in a dangerous sport and personal responsibility and risk must be appreciated and accepted.
Richard

[NASSTY]

Originally Posted by 400TT

Considering the Nationals are getting oversubscribed, it's a good time to bring in these measures.

I don't think making things tougher to complete at the Nationals is a good way to control the level of oversubscribtion at the event. Perhaps changing the format would be a better way to go to allow more Cobras to compete and get more time on the track. From the two times I've been to the Nationals as a spectator, most drivers appeared to only driving at 7 or 8 10ths while the few at the pointy end were going hammer and tongs. As a builder, I know I've invested more than just my time and energy to getting my dream on the road and that alone would make me think twice about how hard you really want to push things. That said, I could easily get a rush of blood to my head as well!

[400TT]

Nationals 2007 regs are out. Really thought they would give everyone more notice than the rollbar & harness changes.

The main changes from 2006 are:

* Roll bars are compulsory for open top cars. Minimum single hoop behind drivers head.

* Any vehicle that runs faster than 1 min 11.99 seconds will be required to have a Roll Bar behind the drivers head that is constructed of steel tube with a minimum 50 mm OD and a wall thickness of 2mm or 44.45 mm OD with 2.5 mm wall thickness. It must be at least 50mm above the drivers helmet and will be fixed to the chassis in at least three separate positions.

* Any car running faster than 1min13.99 seconds will be required to have a Full Harness Seat Belt.

* Fire Extinguisher must be less than three years old or should carry a current inspection tag.

* Accelerator linkages will have a minimum of TWO return springs.

Regulations can be downloaded from here:
http://www.cobracarclubqld.org.au/Ne...007Regulations

[richardferguson]

....and all Queensland competitors are required to carry a passenger of no less than 200kg....
.....what chance will we have otherwise!

[Cameron Parsons]

Richard...

I think some have more than enough ballast to compensate

As for the roll bars... I agree Craig, that's tough at late notice. I know that many Cobra's have a 'false' rear stay on the roll hoop and that's not an easy fix.

Looking at last years list, I recall that most people in the zone have the right gear.

End of the day, if it makes this safer all round, then you can't complain.

Cameron

[spookypt]

There is going to be alot of mod work being done on cobras before the Nats I reckon. From memory last year there were alot of cars where the drivers helmets were proud of the hoop by several inches.... People will be removing seat runners like crazy and developing a paunch!

That said alot of guys have a dumby thrid stay which is not affixed to anything... Just touches the gel coat for looks..

I know its hard but its a risk racing cars at the best of times and slow cars can just as easily flip..... For me (and please don't take offence) I belieive a proper 3 inch 5 point harness and 3 point affixed roll bar should be the std but I am probably creating some dramas by saying that!

I wish I could run a full cage but QLD Transport wouldn't like that. I could go full chrome molley and then I'd have aanother thing I could polish!


SpookyPT

P.S. This year I'm taking my front off so engine bay competitors be prepared!

P.S.S. Have we established a car trailer trophy yet PhilM?

[400TT]

I'm guessing even the decorative bars will count as having a roll bar. But if you go faster than 11.99 will need a structural bar with required mounting, clearance etc.

I think we will need to get detailed confirmation of compliance for some of the QLD cars. From what I've heard there a few that are loathe to take their Cobra down there if there is any risk it will fail scrutineering. It's a long and expensive trip if you end up not racing.

These new regulations are not a requirement of racing at Wakefield Park or a CAMS requirement. These are the requirements deemed necessary by the Nationals committee.

For the structural rollbar requirement I wonder if a 3mm thick stainless one is good enough?

My brother dug out a list of competitors from last year that would be affected.

3 47 John White (QLD) 1:08.1630 0:00.7480
5 84 Colin Turner (VIC) 1:10.4380 0:03.0230
6 88 Cameron Parsons (QLD) 10 1:10.4500 0:03.0350
7 28 Warren Boylan (QLD) 1:10.5230 0:03.1080
8 119 Warwick Harrison (QLD) 1:10.5770 0:03.1620
9 20 Ross Kiagg (VIC) 11 1:10.6100 0:03.1950
10 19 Ron Ford (QLD) 1:11.4700 0:04.0550
11 53 Yve Stocks (QLD) 1:11.5090 0:04.0940
12 29 John Collett (NSW) 1:11.6430 0:04.2280
13 35 William Trickett (NSW) 10 1:11.6610 0:04.2460
14 56 Peter Hancock (QLD) 1:11.7090 0:04.2940
15 371 Gary Sims 1:12.1680 0:04.7530
16 37 Mike Helmers (VIC) 1:12.3350 0:04.9200
17 64 Ashley Bright (QLD) 1:12.3500 0:04.9350
18 65 Peter Duncan (VIC) 1:12.4580 0:05.0430
19 76 Geoff Gay (NSW) 1:12.6990 0:05.2840
20 27 Peter Muldoon (NSW) 1:12.7080 0:05.2930
21 554 Margaret O'Dowd (NSW) 1:12.8710 0:05.4560
23 191 Louis Loizou (NSW) 1:13.2760 0:05.8610
24 22 Leigh Reaby (VIC) 1:13.5790 0:06.1640
25 58 Laurie Bongailas (VIC) 1:13.6450 0:06.2300
26 91 Karen Mizzi (NSW) 1:13.7450 0:06.3300
27 221 Steve Hiam (VIC) 1:13.8110 0:06.3960

How do they work out how fast you will go if you haven't raced there before?

Problem is everyone gets faster each year, so most competitors should post faster times than last year. So this year, the list should be a lot longer.

[spookypt]

Craig, this could be a rather big issue... If you haven't raced there before and all of a sudden wack in a 1.13 then do you exit stage right????

How, if it isn't CAMS or WPR sanctioned arrived at?

SpookyPT

[400TT]

Originally Posted by spookypt

How, if it isn't CAMS or WPR sanctioned arrived at?

SpookyPT

Just the our club Nationals committee trying to make the event safer by bringing in the extra requirements. Is that what you mean?

[spookypt]

It seems strange to have cut offs for specific safety items based on times.... A slow time does not necessairly mean a slow car! Fast down the straight slow in the corners etc etc

Just doesn't make sense to me...............

And if you are faster than expected, but don't have the items required to meet those times do you drive slower for 1/10 of the track to stay drivable.

It's a long way to Goulbourn to find that out?

SpookyPT

[NASSTY]

Originally Posted by 400TT

Nationals 2007 regs are out.
* Roll bars are compulsory for open top cars. Minimum single hoop behind drivers head.

* Any vehicle that runs faster than 1 min 11.99 seconds will be required to have a Roll Bar behind the drivers head that is constructed of steel tube with a minimum 50 mm OD and a wall thickness of 2mm or 44.45 mm OD with 2.5 mm wall thickness. It must be at least 50mm above the drivers helmet and will be fixed to the chassis in at least three separate positions.

* Any car running faster than 1min13.99 seconds will be required to have a Full Harness Seat Belt.

I hope this is not the beginning of the end? Unfortunately we live in a world where everyone else is to blame and public liability is at the forefront of every organisors' mind. That said, if things get too serious, especially when it appears that the organisors are imposing a set of standards that are higher than CAMS or the venue's, then the fun of a bunch of blokes getting together to have some fun without being scrutinised by the boys in blue, could be lost. I hope not.

[Plums]

Originally Posted by 400TT

Nationals 2007 regs are out.

* Roll bars are compulsory for open top cars. Minimum single hoop behind drivers head.

* Any vehicle that runs faster than 1 min 11.99 seconds will be required to have a Roll Bar behind the drivers head that is constructed of steel tube with a minimum 50 mm OD and a wall thickness of 2mm or 44.45 mm OD with 2.5 mm wall thickness. It must be at least 50mm above the drivers helmet and will be fixed to the chassis in at least three separate positions.

* Any car running faster than 1min13.99 seconds will be required to have a Full Harness Seat Belt.

* Fire Extinguisher must be less than three years old or should carry a current inspection tag.

* Accelerator linkages will have a minimum of TWO return springs.

Personally, I believe that these regulations seem quite fair for circuit racing.

Geez I wish these were the regulations for Drag Racing...