Check the fine print
 

Hi all,

:eek:

I recently had the opportunity to attend an informal Geelong car club meeting, there I listened to a speaker who was covering the topic of vehicle modifications in general.


:confused:

None of it was really 'new news' to me. The club and car owners have similiar problems with upgrading old engines etc. with later EFI engines and upgrades. The questions and frustrations were the same we know of.

The speaker covered off on a variety of topics and then digressed onto insurance and owners responsibilities to accurately report and read fine print. In particular making additional modifications or changes.

:(

This guy had been a general auto assessor and was now specialising in assessment on modified vehicles for insurance.

Hesaid he works with a large insurance company, that are speciality auto and club vehicle focused. I guessed it was one that we all know of or are insured with.

He went on and covered a few points that we need to be cognisant of....

Let me see if I can briefly mention a few that surprised me a little....

%/


# If you have an engineers report on your car and you modify the vehicle in anyway then your insurance company has the right to refuse a claim. This included simple things such as tyres, ride height, simple engine modifications and importantly the removal of any engineered parts - in particular parts identified on the engineeers report.

:CRY:

# Insurance companies do not cover cars when competing in any competition of any type event - some arrangements can be made apparently.

# He explained that if the event required the vehicle to be driven on a closed course with vehicle door numbers or helmets worn by drivers, it was deemed a competitive event - read the fine print or discuss personally with the company.

# Further comment was solicited by those there/listening, regarding events such as the Targa Tasmania and club days at Calder Park raceway etc.

Coments he made were that individuals often contacted the insurance company and asked to modify/vary policies to allow them to enter some events.

# Basically, every car that competed at recent race or club events in Australia was not covered whilst competing, unless the owner had made/asked for a variation.

# Each car that is in your competition must be fully registered - it is otherwise seen as a race car and should not be on the track or course with other registered vehicles. The insurance company must be able to make a claim against another vehicle if appropriate....:confused:

My take on this is, that if you are on the track, you are on your own - that is no insurance of any type. If you do a track day and you are out with race cars and one collides with you your on your own.

Interesting when you are aware of the events we get into...%/

A comment made was insurance companies only cover track or driving improvement type events. Mmmm, I read that as tweed coats and hats...:eek:

:o

It's surprising when you have someone who understands, explain the 'fine print'

:eek:

This literally is interpreted as drivers in tweed coats and peak caps driving through witches hats. Once you go the next step in a controlled timed environment it is considered competition.

He went on to say that it is near imposisble to get an insurance company to cover a vehicle in this situation.

Mmmm

Perhaps you may have a comment to make. Were you covered at the last event. Or did you think you were...:confused:

In concluding, he said that we should all simply ring the insurance company telling them what we wanted to do. Then listen to their options or refusal. He seemmed to think it would be a refusal for the type of events I described to him.

:eek:

Does this effectively mean that we are driving around tracks totally un insured in our road cars...:confused:

It appears that I have been...**)

Hey Bernie
 

I guess the way I see it is that every time I go out onto the track I go out with the knowledge that the insurer will endeavour to decline any claim made by me from any damage incurred whilst on the track, this fine print has always been an issue when it comes to making claims, it has been this way as far back as I can remember, the insurer always seems to have an escape clause slotted in there somewhere, bit of a worry. Now the modification part worries me somewhat, where do most of us REALLY stand? :confused:

Thanks for the post Bernie.

Stef

I have always thought that as soon as you engage your car in any sort of motorsport you can kiss your insurance coverage goodbye if anything goes amiss.

Its the risk you take for some fun.:MECOOL:

Typical insurance companys. They spend more avoiding pay outs than they do pay outs.

HSVREDSLED

I was surprised to hear that the low action track days are the only ones/type covered.

My understanding of those is a motorkhana type event seems to be ok. Driving around hay bales was an example given with reversing and skill type events.

Whilst timed events are out. If it requires numbers, time gear, helmets it appears that you are possibly on your own.

This was made clear.

:eek:

Then he stated if you want to do something ring your insurerance company and state what you are doing - they will either approve or decline and cover accordingly.

Another throw away comment was that many insurance companies have auto enthusiasts within their midst who attend or know of most events.

The race car out with a registered car is a concern...%/

Enter a competition event with your car,-- you [u]are on your own, or the event organisers such as CAMS, AASA etc
In Qld,(&Tas) it is a requiremrent that we produce a certificate from our insurer for pemission to compete (TPI extension) as "duty of care" -- sounds daunting but fairly simple really --just remembering to get get one is usually the problem.

If you think competing in your car is dangerous --DON'T enter !:MECOOL:

Bernie, thanks for a really informative post - albeit one that has me seriously concerned about future driving events.

I did a Murcott's drive day at Sandown for Golf GTI owners which I think fits into the category of "tweed coats and hats", basically skid pan, car control under ABS/ECS, some motorkhana and a few quick laps. We signed a waiver and nobody informed us of our insurance obligations. I thoroughly enjoyed the day and learning the car's various safety features in a controlled environment. HOWEVER, do you think if I had come unstuck on a hot lap that I would've been covered? Next time I'll be ringing my insurance company, that's for sure.

I'm sure you've all heard the urban myth about the bloke who crashes his pride and joy at Calder Park, only to have someone tow him out onto Calder Hwy where they call the tow truck and claim it as a normal road accident. :)

Sambo

Don't want to frighten anyone. It's about the insurance company advising us about some of the activities they do not cover.

Guess the risk is threefold when we are on a track going 9/10ths with others.

Listening I gathered the impression insurance companies encourage driver training but seem to get shaky when helmets, numbers, timing gear and race suits get into the picture.

I certainly don't think competing is dangerous, but I do think competing with a group of uninsured vehicles or race cars could be. You could be caught up in writing off your pride and joy and someone else believing you are insured.

The bottom line is check your policy and fine print with the insurer.....**)

Hey Bernie,
You could not come play at R & G so you are causing trouble with all your extra time now. The insurance issues are a big can of worms with other factors as well to check the fine print on. Most tracks ask you to sign a waiver that is a blanket HOLD HARMLESS agreement. It absolves the track from everything including death but all items wind up a battle in court anyway but it does sign all rights away.

There are a bunch of legal loop holes (way beyond my ability to explain) that alter coverage of a insured car if it is in a trailer being Xfered to a track at a very low cap unless you have a rider on policy. I have riders that cover for stated value all contents of a trailer but only when in trailer on public roads. These amounts cover replacement of show cars and a TA/FC drag car and all tools etc.. so limit is pretty high and not that expensive= $520 a year. The only time the alky funny car is insured is in a trailer????

Special riders on your life insurance without a stated history of over 2 years of racing are needed for disclosure to close exclusion from policy. I knew cars are not covered while on or racing on a track and waiver signed excludes track from any liability also. Check with your agent to see if your STREET insured car is covered if in a trailer driving to a track, mine was not or was only covered at LOW limit of trailer contents when being towed. If you take it out of trailer and on public roads coverage starts again, but no coverage if taken out of trailer on race track property and that includes parking lot if you signed track waiver!!!

I am not close to being able to explain properly so U need somebody who can to speak up or better yet check with your own insur. company. Then the life/health insur. stuff on a track...... scary stuff.

vettestr

Jeff,

Hi mate.

Yes as I was unable to make the Run N Gun sbeing bored I headed down to a Street Rod meeting.

Those Street Rod guys were talking about motorkhana and hay bale events and the insurance guy frightened them.

I wasn't game to mention what we were doing and have done in our Cobra at our events...:eek:

The insurance options included cover whilst building and trailering. Similiar to your coverages.

The track waivers are similiar and the full details are spelt out on big signs as you enter the track.

Most tracks have a track licence and the application covers off on the waivers there also.

Guess it's no big deal until you crash or take out a few cars in a crash...:eek:

As someone pointed out don't race if you are concerned..%/

Are you heading to the Run n Gun? Hershal leaves tomorrow...**)

Thanks Bernie, some great info there.

Also if you have life insurance, income protection insurance etc, make sure you are covered for racing/motorsport activities.

Bernie,
Back at ya mate and no I am not headed fro R & G either but would love to be able to go. Hersh will have enough fun for all of us. On the insurance coverage it sounds like your side of the pond is pretty close to ours. As mentioned the coverage or lack of just needs a few questions asked to your agent to clarify coverages. If you have the PRE existing car nut disease notifing the company may be all that is needed to allow racing etc..
Take care Bernie
jeff c

Insurance
 

Well here is my two cents worth
I'm covered for whatever events Im entered into as long as its a L2s event (Cams description Speed event) Thats through Shannons To get this it takes some phone calls and a lot of patience and a lot of explanation

Downside for all you guys cars need to be more than 30 yrs old

the premium costs me approx $600 on top of the normal insurance and covers only $25 grand

I do about 6 races a year so it works out about $100 a a race for insurance

Most people either cant be covered ,cant be bothered or its too expensive

I managed to get an inclusion for my Life and income protection as well

This all costs and it takes a lot of ringing around

I also Know that the insurance company ( for the life and Income ) doesn't offer this insurance any more **)