Show and Shine results

[BJ's Snake]

Results are up on the NSW website for those interested

http://www.cobracarclubnsw.org.au/shownshine%202007.pdf

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

HI Brett,
Do you know what under body means?

Are they looking at suspension or the paint finish under the body?

As I don't think I have ever looked at a cobras under body.

Phil

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Phil,

I think they were looking at 0verall neatness under the car considering they are all driven on the track and road, as well as exhaust systems (sidepipes,underbody system neatness. Audley's car is finished underneath as good as on top. The paint judges were checking door gaps and finish inside sills and all that. Good job I thought. At least you scored better than last year!

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

Thanks Brett,
That would explain his success over the years.

An older car with 60 000 plus kays and still the benchmark.


Phil

[spookypt]

Are yes, the old "subjective subject" of the Show and Shine...... Been there done that! I have been thinking about this for the last 12 months and seeing as though the results are out I thought I'd put forward an idea!!!

I was wondering if we could take out the "subjectiveness" of the "this is better than that" type of arrangement and simply have a top 5 as voted by every cobra owner competing at the nats... That way if we're not happy we can beat each otehr up! We can still have best sounding etc etc BUT have a competitor only vote... That way WE judge ourselves in essence and should we win an award we know that it has been judged and awarded by our peers which is truly IMO the essence of that particular event!!!!

I know I will get flack for saying this... It just seems more questions are asked as to how rather than statements as to YEAH I reckon that too!!!! If its a poll and 100 drivers voted for example PHIL's car as best then so be it!!! But at least you could see by how much and who polled the highest!!!!

A can of worms maybe... But street class V Show class... Who determines THAT!

It all just seems way too subjective to me...but maye thats what S and S's are all about!!! For the record, I have never won a trophy at a S and S (except an encouragement award to polish harder???) But I was always told I'd go blind if I did that too much!!!

Maybe I'm just jaded?????

SpookyPT

[400TT]

I've done the show judging before at the Nationals and I take my hat off to those judges. They would have done their best and I thank them for it.

Yeah, Street Class & Show Class idea always causes grief. It's simply got to go in my books.

We should just take a page out of the other major shows and just award the following:

Overall Top 10 - If you make the top 10 at the nationals you get a trophy with the placing and with the level of competition and quality of the cars these days it's an achievement...a BIG achievement.

The Top Show Car gets a larger trophy. 2nd place smaller, 3rd smaller again and then maybe the rest all the same size. Something like that.

Also same trophies as previous years for best paint, best interior, best engine bay etc etc.

Awarding a top 10 will be no more trophies than they do now as they award the top 5 show & top 5 street cars.

As an example from this year a local QLD car was determined to be a show car. It's a car that is not only old now(5 years old) with lots of k's, but is also regulary raced(sprints, drags, motorkhanas etc) i.e. something like 20+ days a year racing. This won't be the only example from this year, other states will have similiar stories.

It all comes down to what defines a Show & Street car. In my opinion you can't define it and as a club we have not been able to define it satisfacory in the last 10 years I have been attending.

Plus you don't have to have people going around determining who is show & street class, it's actually less work to do a Top 10.

Rant over...

[Beejay]

Some of those results look at bit weird to me, but I agree it would be a tough job that I would not like to do.

Having seen Phil's car without the body on I find it hard to believe he did not score higher in the under body. Are there any other cars that have all welds smoothed and the chassis powder coated?

My car with 0 km's on it is nowhere as neat underneath!

Ben

[400TT]

Beejay, it's really difficult to fairly judge underbody, you can only see certain areas, it takes a lot of effort and you have to make a lot of assumptions

The judges would also take into account how well the car is presented i.e cleaned and detailed. I saw a few top cars that were sadly not presented at their best. Mind you after detailing Cobras for many years of Nationals shows, I can understand not wanting to clean & polish.

I wasn't one of the judges from this year, but I looked at every car in detail. I also have the photos to prove it.

[PCC]

I'm sorry to say but Show n Shine's are very subjective indeed!

I've won quite a few trophies, winning on some occasions only to find later on when competing against a similar or even the same car I come away without a mention in dispatches.

I'm not getting at the Judges as they have a difficult job indeed based upon current criteria etc. Plus you will never please everybody.

My advice - keep it simple and keep it consistent.

I think the People's choice Trophy is worth far more than other trophy.

Like it or not we are not a Marque, we are a Replica that looks the business.

A novel approach would be to be judged by price category (if it could be done)

Say up to $50k, $50k to $80k, and then above. This would help to put all such custom cars on a level playing field.

How can my DRB compete against Cam's Superformance????? Easy, steal his keys the night before.

I've moved away from such competitions after realising that 3 weeks work for a $20 trophy is rather pointless.

[Philm]

Craig,
I am guilty of the not presented as best as it could be. Our car had sprung a leak in the power steering feed line that is above the gilmer drive belt and 1 ltr of transmission fluid was sprayed inside my engine bay. Then after 2 days of practice the car needed a week to clean it.

The only critisim I have reguarding the S&S is that the nationals are a driving event maybe the show and shine should be held before the practice day.

If you put one wheel off the track into that Goulburn dust you will never get all of it out.

I must say that I am still buzzing with the best paint and best engine bay.

Can we have the nationals again next week.

Phil

[Beejay]

I agree with you guys, very hard to judge.

There are so many well finished cars out there it is amazing.

Keeps guys with cars in bits like me motivated!

Ben

[Rob. Smith]

I am constantly asked will I show it ? My car is not yet finished and it is not
( to my standard ) show quality. It is "road practical" and it's road worthy.
I have been told the car is show worthy but I scoff at this, I have just built the car to be maintenance easy. To make a car showable you need excessive time and money or someone else to do the tricks. I have done everything myself. I am proud of this as well as my skills. I don't care if I get awards or not. I know if I go spearing off into the Australian bush at speed. It is my fault,totally and a pretty car's wreck is the same as an ugly car's wreck.
So when it's judged, by whom ever, I will be happy whatever the out come !
I used to go to lots of hot rod shows and see heaps of faults and rough jobs but those cars are the results of projects built with passion and imagination. I know I will just enjoy my car regardless of it's appearance !

[PCC]

Well said Rob!

Its not how it stands against others, its your baby and that what matters.

Road Practical hmmmmm

Road style more like it!

[Philm]

Peter,
I disagree with your idea that the value of your cobra would determine the class it is to be Judged.

In my opinion cars that win S&S prizes are cars that have a lot of time thrown at them not money.

3 weeks to prepare a car for a show and shine, you should be in "elite" class

However I do agree with yourself and Matt, I rather be judged by my fellow Cobra owners anyday. Now that is a trophy that would go straight to the pool room.

While I am at it, The best part of our sport is the amount of innovation, design and creativity that every cobra displays. WE should have awards for best engineered, best inovation etc etc.

Phil

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Philm

WE should have awards for best engineered, best inovation etc etc.

Now that's a good idea.

[PCC]

Phil,

Beg to differ on the value basis.

I remember a certain Harlequin Cobra that ran out at the Nationals a few years back - beautiful car, but worth $90,000 then.

How can a $50,000 car compete with a similar model, but which has had $40,000 more spent on it.

Maybe that's why the V8 Supercars have been "salary capped" from a cost / spend viewpoint i.e creating a level playing field and providing more competition.

Speed is objective. Looks is unfortunately not.

Which would you prefer - Megan Gale or Jenny Hawkins?

Bit like a Cobra really - either would be bloody fantastic.

PS - Like the artwork

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Guys,

The judges had about 2 hours to judge 106 cars which is no mean feat, so I think they done pretty well and as they said to me was they didn't expect such high quality and there wasn't a bad car out there which made the decisions harder. I agree there should be a competitors choice award anyway which wouldn't be hard to add in the grand scale of things but hard to do a day before practice as alot of people aren't there on the Friday. It used to be in town on the Saturday morning but Council stopped that so where can they go from here to be fair and keep track time to the max for all concerned.

Pete - Jen Hawkins anyday!

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

Megan does it for me.


Brett, you make a good point. We expect a full days work in 2hrs. I hope I haven't put forward any negativity towards the judges as none was intended.

Phil

[Tenrocca]

Now this is a very important discussion, and one Ive argued long and hard over .....

Definately Jen. Megan is a bit of a horse - good proportions, but just big. Mizz... you would come up to her belly button I reckon.

[BJ's Snake]

Phil
No negativity put forward at all.
Come to think about it...You get more time on the track during the S&S than the other events!

Andrew- I have seen alot uglier horses than Megan!

Cheers