Cleveland Help???

Tony Cram · #1 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 02:42 AM

Hi everyone,

I need some help??? I have been playing around with the cooling system on my old clevo and have found that the small brass bush / or plug that fits under the Thermostat has been removed (Prior to me owning the car). This is critical for the thermostat to block the bypass to the pump when the engine reaches temp. I have been chasing cooling problems for a while now and was not aware of this needed brass part until a few days ago. ie It has meant that the Thermostat is not blocking the coolant to the bypass.

I have rung around and now have others in the know looking, but we may need to machine up a part if necessary. Does anyone

1. Have a part like this floating around?
2. Know where I might get one...I have gone to all the clevo experts down here in Melb. Part is obsolete.
3. Have a spec drawing of the brass bush they can send me?

Hoping someone can help!!!

Cheers

Tony

PS : will be puling an old bush out of another engine and try and measure if no success.

Aussie Mike · #2 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 02:49 AM

If you get stuck finding a genuine one. I can probably machine one up for you.

Cheers

REPTYL · #3 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 03:43 AM

It's a Clevo....let it run hot they love it

What are you doing on the internet and playing with your car?
You have a Shelby Fest to organise.

stephen low · #4 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 03:48 AM

Tony

Unless the fitting has to meet some funny shape, I reckon any decent hose/hydraulic shop could supply a threaded fitting to match the block from which you could fit off hoses.

I have no idea of the fitting but the Clevo and Windsor blocks don't run any fancy threads that couldn't be matched.

Just a thought!

Cheers

Tony Cram · #5 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 04:01 AM

Jason,

Shelby Fest......what's that! He He He.

Stephen,

It is the brass bush inside the block, ie under the thermostat and thermostat housing. I'm thinking about ringing Ford tomorrow and see if they have a drawing they may be able to get from archive.

Mike,

Thanks for the offer. I guess i need to get something to measure first.

Cheers

TC

gtc · #6 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Cram

Jason,

Shelby Fest......what's that! He He He.

Stephen,

It is the brass bush inside the block, ie under the thermostat and thermostat housing. I'm thinking about ringing Ford tomorrow and see if they have a drawing they may be able to get from archive.

Mike,

Thanks for the offer. I guess i need to get something to measure first.

Cheers

TC

Just a thought, but if you get stuck, you might try one of the local Ford forums.

Cheers, Graeme

troll · #7 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 04:50 AM

Why not put in a core plug with a 3/4 inch or 5/8 inch hole drilled in it.Thats all they really are.

Woodz428 · #8 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 06:23 AM

I've got about a dozen Cleveland blocks, have had Clevelands since the early 70s, and I have never seen one of those out. It doesn't just fall out accidently, someone had to intentionally remove it for some reason. If you don't locate one I can probably knock one out and give you the dimensions. I believe they have a small lip under them that presses into the block, in the U.S. I don't believe they are serviced seperately. You may have better luck down under since they are still a "current" engine in comparison to here.

767Jockey · #9 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 06:29 AM

Go to the site I have copied below. This is a Cleveland only forum. Do a quick search, there's a guy on here who has started manufacturing the brass restrictor again. Ford stopped making them years ago. I think the guy is in the USA, but what can shipping possibly be on a brass washer? It'll probably be fine in a letter envelope. Good luck.
Doug

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

Tony Cram · #10 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 03:43 PM

Doug, WDZ,

Really appreciate the help. The Cleveland forum was a great help.

Seems you can get them on Ebay and there is a Pantera Perfomance shop in Colorado that sells them with different restriction sizes. I am still trying here in Aus and see if I can get a dimension drawing for the part.

I have a couple of engine guys here trying to get one out of an old block to see if we can make a copy.

I will let you know how I go.

Cheers

Tony

AK1234 · #11 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 04:03 PM

Go to www.panteracars.com there is a guy who makes them and sells them or ask and the Austrialian Cleveland Guys definately have them www. ausfordparts.com

Couple thinsg to keep in mind ... running the motor without that brass bypass will overheat the motor ..also the water pump for the C motor is unique .. Elelbrock is the only co that makes the correct one ..wieand is the wrong one even if they say its right.

Ron

Ron

Tony Cram · #12 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 07:26 PM

Thanks everyone for your help. i have managed to get one locally here in Melbourne.

These are a national treasure here in Aus. We are going to measure it up and perhaps get a few made up for us Cleveland hacks.

A picture for those interested!!

Top View (It's the plate on the right)

Bottom view

Ron,

I went to the Pantera website earlier this morning. It was very helpful and at least I know now that I can get one in the US if I get desperate.

Thanks again.

Cheers

TC

stephen low · #13 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 08:02 PM

Clearly not what I thought it was, by your description on cooling issues.

Does this fitting tend to cause recirculation until temp reached to minimise the time for the engine to heat up or has it a function to aid cooling at operating temperatures?

What temps were you running at Tony?

I ask as mine seems to want to stay cold, not much better than about 40 C, unless delayed in stop start traffic and then it moves to 85 - 90C when the thermo cuts in or more persistent forward movement achieves the needed cooling.

Your thread has made me wonder if I am missing a control mechanism as I replaced my thermostat but I don't believe my housing had been previously dismantled.

Does your thermostat have that nasty trick too of being ovaloid? Such that when you bolt it in incorrectly the first time you get all these coolant leaks until you re dismantle, swear and then put it in correctly again!!

Cheers

REPTYL · #14 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

These are a national treasure here in Aus. We are going to measure it up and perhaps get a few made up for us Cleveland hacks.

You have me thinking now.
My old girl has always run hot,
never really bothered me in the past, but may be worth a look.

Tony Cram · #15 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 10:07 PM

Stephen,

You may have a problem with your thermostat. My engine will hold at 85 - 90 from start up to running temp but if I give her a squirt or sit in traffic the temp slowly climbs to 110 and the thermo can just barely hold her. It's fine when on the freeway ie sits on 85 - 90 no problem but as soon as I get disruption of airflow or I sit behind traffic she climbs. I haven't had it boil from the radiator but I do find that after a longer trip and the car sits for a few minutes the block sometimes boils sending some coolant to the overflow. This seems to be indicatative of having too much bypass and the block is getting too hot.

The brass insert allows for the thermostat to block off the bypass back through the engine. Cooling is then directed more to the radiator. Without this insert you will be loosing more than 25% flow to the radiator. From all the forums I have read in the last couple of days it seems this insert is one part that is important and that you have the correct Thermostat for a Cleveland. The windsors are different as the thermostat comes off the front of the pump/engine. I am not sure of what setup the thermostat has. ie is it a bypass set up or does it bypass somewhere else. I believe windsors do not have this insert.

Jas,

I believe it is very very unusual for the brass insert to be missing. However, everyone I spoke with who new about clevelands said that some reconditioners/ engine rebuilders removed them if they were damaged (and then probably couldn't get one to replace

). I believe some were cast steel ones (and were probably buggered), the brass ones should be fine.

One of the keys for me was even if I stop and leave the thermofan on the temp didn't move down. I still expect the old girl to get a little warm when I am on the track and in heavy traffic / hot days.

Hope this helps.

TC

AK1234 · #16 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 10:33 PM

Tony not sure if you understood but there were a lot of clevelands that were made in Austrailia ..some time after 1974 Ford made them there ... but these guys in your country have a lot of nice stuff. www. ausfordparts.com

Ron

Aussie Mike · #17 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 01:49 AM

It may have been removed if the block had been hot tanked prior to machining. The hot caustic solution does a great job of cleaning cast iron but I think it eats metals like brass and aluminium.

Cheers

Tony Cram · #18 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 02:43 AM

Ron,

Had a look at ausparts. Some awesome parts and prices pretty good also. Good to know we make something useful out of the old clevo down here. If I look too much though I will just drool

over the AFD heads they have for sale.

Hmmmmm maybe next engine rebuild might get a set of those shiny new heads.

Thanks for the tip I will certainly keep this mob in the memory bank.

Cheers

TC