The POOL ROOM

[Mulv]

Originally Posted by BMK

Mulv,

Mmmm the Mustang, now that was fun..But I should mention the midnight race around Scottsdale, Arizona in the 60's Corvette...

You mean this car?



The Corvette engine went kablooey, so the replacement is a lot more powerful and can easily keep up with old ladies in Buicks...

[BMK]

Mulv,

Looking forward to taking on those 'little old ladies from Scottsdale' at the lights.



The Corvette is looking good. Did you do some body work as well as an engine build..

Look after it for me - I'm looking forward to bringing it over here..

[Mulv]

No body work, new wheels and I waxed the heck out of it....

Make me an offer I can't refuse

Would like to shift the Mustang though, any vintage racers in OZ?

[BMK]

Mulv,

No doubt potential purchasers will come on here looking.

Place some photos and details...

[Tatsushige]

Well first trip to the Pool Room.


Introduction :

Perth born Aussie now living in Japan, been here 6 years and now looking at starting up a car manufacturing company at the moment trying to find the laws on it.

Problem :

Kit cars in Japan cannot be more then 125cc and cannot go faster than 60kph, so the only option here is to fully manufacture cars and have a manufacturing license.

Rebodied cars like the Mitsuoka’s are not classed as kit cars but as manufactured cars, they use Nissans, Mazdas as donors and just replace the body panels with their designed panels, they also have the DINGO UGLY custom made “OROCHI” which they class as a Supercar.

If you want to sell Cobras, Ferrari Replicas or Lamborghini Replicas then you need to have a Manufacturing License, you can NOT sell kits of the vehicles, either sell fully built or do not sell at all.


So the Plan :

Lamborghini 25th Anniversary Countach can be brought here for about $120K I am thinking of buying one stripping it and making a 100% accurate copy of it in Carbon Fiber. Using a custom made Aluminum Monocoque Chassis and custom suspension.

Going with a Toyota 5.0L V8 though a 62G transaxle 5-Speed H Pattern gearbox or maybe a 6-Speed Sequential Transaxle most likely from Quaife UK., all other parts will be sourced from Toyota. The cost of a completed car will be about $90,000 to $110,000 on the road and will be classed as a new vehicle.

BUT I am thinking if this idea falls on it arse because of the laws here, how hard would it be to set up back in OZ?

If in OZ I would be going the LS3 or LS7 and using Holden Parts but I can see the price of the cars will then be in the $150,000 mark after looking at the Holden Powered Elfin and the price of that little buzzbox.


What do you guys think? In OZ would it work or would it fall on its arse also?

[Aussie Mike]

With an operation of that scale you may run into some copyright issues. I don't reckon Lamborghini mind a few fiberglass bodied replicas with tube chassis but a 100% accurate replica may wake their lawyers up.

Also if you can buy an original Countach for $120K why would you buy a replica for $90K-$110K? People who are going to buy a replica will go for a car where the original is beyond easy reach. A cobra fits in there because an original 427 is $300K+ where a replica can be built for $50K.

You would be better of in my opinion coming up with your own design and selling it as a bespoke super car in your situation.

Yes the Mitsuoka Orochi is ugly but it'll still probably sell. One thing I think common to super car buyers is that they want to stand out from the crowd. A huge tubby dyke with tattoos and a nose ring will turn heads the same as a supermodel.

Cheers

[Tatsushige]

Extreme (http://extreme-sportscars.com/) in the UK just copied a Murcielago, the guy owns it ripped it apart and copied it. Audi has not gone after him.

About 15 years ago a company did the same to a Countach and then sold copies of the moulds to others, all the Replica Countachs in the UK are 100% copies of the 5000qv the main company making the Countch in the UK is DC Supercars (http://www.dcsupercars.com/) they also do the Diablo Roadster and the owner has a Diablo SV that he is now ripping apart to make moulds.

Another company with copies of the Countach moulds in Mirage (http://www.mirage-replicas.co.uk/)

Parallel Designs has done the same to the Diablo and they have Lamborghinis appoval (http://www.paralleldesigns.co.uk/index.html)



The above companies make kits but also build complete car and they cost well over $AU120K, a mate in the UK just had a Diablo SV build by PDs it took 2 years and cost him 70 British Pounds, he could have brought a Real Countach for the same price

Muscle Cars in the USA does the Diablo SV for $139,000 US using all second hand parts



Audi will not go after Countach or Diablo builders as long as they are NOT badged as Lamborghinis, as soon as you put the Lamborghini badge on them you are claiming they are Lambos and Audi goes like they did in the USA, as for the Murielago you can not copy it at the moment, but under UK laws you can copy anything you like it is when you SELL it that you are breaking the law, the way the guys in the UK are getting away with this is to have NO CONTRACTS of sale.




In regards to Japan and the lambos. The age of the Real Countach makes it an expensive vehicle, because you are paying about $5,000 to $8,000 in emission Tax every year, then you have insurance of about $15,000 a year, plus because of its age it needs to go over the pits every year for re-reg and that is not cheap either..

Most of the Countachs here are not licensed because they cost too much a year. People buy them and lock them away. At the moment there are over 37 for sale as people are dumping them because they cost to much to keep.

Second Hand RHD Countach are about 14,000,000 Yen to 18,000,000 Yen,
Second Hand LHD Countach are about 19,000,000 Yen to 22,000,000 Yen.
Second Hand LHD Diablo VT is 9,000,000 Yen to 12,000,000 Yen

New Lexus LS600h 9,000,000 Yen

Sorry in Aussie $ have no idea



With a NEW Toyota Part Countach they will not need to pay a emission tax, the insurance is not going to be high because it is only a 5000 cc unleaded vehicle and as it is new they do not need to go over the pit every year to have it re-reg

The car will NOT be badged as a Lamborghini or even a Countach so I will not have Lamborghini knocking on my door.

I am looking at building 2 to 5 a month and no more.

[Tatsushige]

I read about this in a Kit Car Mag back in 1995


A company called Strohm was building Replicas of the Coutach 5000QV, they were call the Strohm De Rella V6 Turbo built in German. A mould was taken from a Real 5000QV and then had some minor details added and a special rear wing that wasn't anything like a Lambo offered at the time.



They call it the De Rella V6 because it used a Renault Alpine A610 V6.

Strohm built these cars on customer demand, the future owner could specify just about anything on his replica.


Strohm replica's are considered to be among the best Countach replica's available, these cars were never available as kit cars, you could only order the complete car in the early 1990's.

You ordered your car and it would be built by Strohm for a price around US $60,000 ($60,000 US in the 1990's is how much today is anyone guess)

Lamborghini know about this and never worried about it.

[BMK]

tatsushige

I would contact 'RCR' who have a variety of options. They have an add on this forum. Craigf White in Queensland Australia is the closest agent to you.

The SLC coupe would suit...

[Tatsushige]

Contact "RCR"

But decided to go for a Company in the UK.

[boxhead]

Tatsushige.

This is my opinion only and you can do as you please.
But sending a private email to a company then broadcasting there reply on a public forum is not exactly "good form"

I wish you luck in your venture but feel you may make more enemies than friends if your not careful, the market for kit cars is not a very big one so you dont want to annoy what could be either a major supplier or a major competitor.

Also I do not know the legalities of selling complete turn key cars within Australia, but suspect that once you sell more than X amount you would have to comply with a different set of rules.

Again this is just my opinion and I wish you luck.

[Tatsushige]

Kit cars are huge in the UK so will head there to sort it out.

There are a few companies building complete cars for clients, so as I only plan on making 2 to 5 a month it will be easy to pass the SVA.


Thanks for the advice boxhead.

[Tenrocca]

Tats - one of them plastic falcons for sale on ebay (unfinished) if your interested.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-GENERATIO...1%7C240%3A1318

[Tatsushige]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Tats - one of them plastic falcons for sale on ebay (unfinished) if your interested.

Hell yes, having a look now. I would need to fly back to OZ to finish it as I have found out under Japanese Law OWN built kit cars can not have a engine more then 125cc or a top speed of 60kph.

You can import a fully licensed kitcar as long as it is licensed in country of origin.

[trularin]

So, you can visit with a 600 HP Cobra but you can not stay.

[Tatsushige]

You can own a KIT CAR that has been build outside of Japan and licensed out side of Japan, it will be imported as a normal vehicle NOT classed as a Kit Car,

There are 1000's of Cobras here from the USA all licensed for road use.

But :

if you import a kit and build it here then you have no change in hell of getting it licensed or on the road.

if you built it in OZ have it licensed in OZ then import it in to Japan, then No problems you will have it licensed here and on the road.


Stuffed up RULES but they are set up to PROTECT the BIG CAR companies here!.. This country and the government are controlled by the Car Companies and Electronic Companies.

[BMK]

Mmmm - just saw on the news that the Victorian Police are possibly going to charge a fireman over lighting fires in the Kinglake area.

The news reader flashed across to an on site reporter at Kinglake.

I was surprised to see in the background that building activity was well under way on some blocks. It was also showing signs of green grass and trees with leaves.

It is amazing how quickly nature springs back from such devastation.

[boxhead]

Hi Bernie,
I was in the area on the Shelbyfest weekend, I have a mate who lives at Strathewen, they lost 100 acres out of the 112 they own.
It is getting green again and some trees are starting to sprout leaves again.
Talking to my mate on the phone gave me a feel for what they went through on the day, but until I went there and saw just how close things where, it was very confronting to see.
They did lose a number of neighbours in the fires and they would have been in the same boat had the wind not changed directions less than 30 metres from the houses.
Adam described a wall of fire higher than he could look up (tops of trees are about 40 metres above ground level) and it was coming very quickly, hit the peak of the hill where there houses are and stopped in the wind, it stayed there burning for over 1 hour before dying down.

[BMK]

Yes there were some lucky one. I had the chance to fly over the entire site and it is really surprising to see some houses right in the middle of the fires have survived.

Others just went up in seconds. It really was like a bomb had hit the entire area when you see it from above..



I just hope that the Police are able to charge someone with the fires. It will give a lot of closure for some.

Tonight on the news they were talking about some of the money getting out to the fire victims. Seems to have taken a long time for that to happen..

I wonder if the money that we gave personally and through our business, may have been better just handed to someone living on the football ground...

Bernie

[Tatsushige]

Originally Posted by BMK

Tonight on the news they were talking about some of the money getting out to the fire victims. Seems to have taken a long time for that to happen..

It is always the same, when donating money. I use to donate to UNCIEF until I found out 80% of the money went to admin fees and staff, and the last 20% went to the kids.



There was a lot on the Fires here in Japan. I was like I was sitting in OZ watching Channel 9 NEWS.