Dyno run

boxhead · #1 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 04:07 AM

One of the "jobs" I wanted to get done was a chance to get the Cobra dyno tuned, as the car was still running a mail order tune from ChipMaster in WA.

Gav had organised a guy to do it for us on the Wednesday before heading to Goulburn.

My car span the dyno to 266Kw with the mail order mafless tune, the dyno guy plugged his laptop in and could not communicate with it, turned out the guy from ChipMaster had locked it.
I contacted him and advised what our problem was and asked if he could supply either the means to unlock it so it could be fine tuned or if he could email the tune to me so if we did wipe it, we could atleast reset it.
To all his answer was NO, he told me to send the ecu to him and he could return it back to a stock tune for free.
So he was more than happy to take my money (cant remember it was either $400 or $600) but did not give a rats arse that there was no way I could get the car to him for fine tuning.
So if anyone asks me I would say steer clear of him.

So Gav's guy had a spare ecu there, we fitted it and he set a base program in, adjusted fan temps removed VATS etc.
After some fine tuning below are the final results.

sideshow · #2 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 05:09 AM

this is regular occurance because most these guys are specialists and back yard guys are buying this tuning software and going round and sucking tunes from other peoples cars

trust me its easily done

thats y alot fo these top dyno guys lock the tunes

anyway i tell people now to ask before they get the ecu tuned

yr better of buying a 2nd hand ls1 ecu and getting it tuned on a dyno by someone who doesnt lock their ecus

i did hear of a guy in WA closing shop not to sure if it was chipmaster

maybe he had enough of dealing with alot fo people in the automotive world

anyway i never lock my ecus i just say here it is do what u want with it

hopefully soon we will have special software that can unlock locked ecus

anyway u live and learn and as i always say ask a million questions before u depart with your money

i guess u should have gotten someone else to do the job

heheheh

boxhead · #3 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 06:09 AM

When I had it done (about 3 years ago) nearly everyone on LS1.com was recomending him (since at the time there was no one local capable of doing it), (Have you forgotten I live in Alice Springs?)
Sideshow, I dont want to get into another argument with you but if you think it is funny that I burnt a heap of money after going to where everyone was recomending then I am happy you are so easily entertained.

LoBelly · #4 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 06:21 AM

Hey Boxhead

Very nice numbers (368.4rwhp) - bet you're grinnin

LoBelly

boxhead · #5 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 04:54 PM

Very happy LoBelly,
Due to the amount of horsepower, it gave me a little extra speed on the main straight to get away from Churchy.
Now I just need better tyres, bigger brakes and some driving lessons for the race track.

Plums · #6 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 10:11 PM

I know you may be disappointed with the service you received (and the locked PCM), but I'd say the tune you got from Chipmaster was pretty bloody good. For a "Mail-order" tune to be that close it has to be pretty good.

Concerning the locking of PCM's, as Sideshow has mentioned, lots of hard work goes into these programs and it's very easy to "copy" or "steal" the program. There are heaps of workshops out there that have just bought the software and have no clue what to do with it, except copy the hard work of other experienced workshops.

In fact, I had a "new" workshop call me yesterday asking for advice (somebody that I didn't even know gave them my number and said I would help them)!!! They had recently installed a Dyno and got the LSx tuning software. They said they had a cam car that was giving them some trouble. It turns out that it was the first car they had ever attempted to tune and it was a monster cam (240/244 on 112 with big lift)... I told them to ring the people that supplied the software....

Personally, I ask the customer if they want it locked or not, and if they don't I just leave out some of my "secret things"...

boxhead · #7 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 11:01 PM

I would be happy if I was given that option, but I wasnt.
I told him when he was doing it (as I took the ecu with me to his shop once when I was in Perth for work), I told him what it was for and the fact that once all sorted I would take the car to a shop to have fine tuned, most likely in Melbourne (planned trip for ShelbyFest or family visit). He never mentioned that it would not be accessable to anyone else.
I agree with you Bobby that it was pretty good to be so close to the final figure.

So now I am not sure what to do with my old ecu, I need to replace the one supplied by the shop in Mildura, So I can either send mine to Perth to be wiped and cleared or keep it and look at selling it? Or locating a good second hand unit. Does anyone have a standard one to sell?
Or if anyone has a car they are building using LS1 with manual gearbox and they have a stock ecu, let me know and we may be able to work something out with mine that is ready to go in a car (Vats deleted and mafless tune).
Bear in mind though that unless your in Perth you will end up in the same boat as me when it comes to dyno tuning.

Plums · #8 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 11:42 PM

The Delphi (LS1) PCM's are becoming harder to find, though you could try Holmart in Moorabin as they may have one lying around.

As you say, your best bet is to offload the Chipmaster PCM to someone that has the exact same combo as you (manual, same diff ratio etc.)...

If you get desperate, I have a couple of spare PCM's and I could sell you one of those...

alffie · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 01:15 AM

So when I go to a dyno when mines on the road I may not be able to sort any issues out with the ECU if its locked? Great advertisment for mail order ECUs, if you have problems your screwd

sideshow · #10 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 02:07 AM

if yr worried just buy an ecu with std tune

at moment have 5 ls1 ecus and 8 e38 ecus

they dont stay on the shelf for long

anyway i think chipmaster sold up shop and drives round tuning cars

Gav · #11 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 05:05 AM

That is actually my ECU Dave!!!!
'Due to the amount of horsepower, it gave me a little extra speed on the main straight to get away from Churchy'
Didn't give you enough HP to get away from the cobra with the grandad gear box though did it?

Heh Heh

boxhead · #12 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 02:45 AM

I reckon I would have pulled away from you along the main straight (after making the bend).

But the grandad box would probably get me in the 1/8 drags (especially if you had the good tyres on)

boxhead · #13 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alffie

So when I go to a dyno when mines on the road I may not be able to sort any issues out with the ECU if its locked? Great advertisment for mail order ECUs, if you have problems your screwd

Alfie, I will admit to not knowing they could be locked when I did mine, but as Plums has said, just specify you dont want it locked, atleast it will get you a start point.

Gav · #14 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 05:04 AM

I doubt it.
My rear end gearing was my saving grace.

boxhead · #15 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 04:32 PM

That is true, I forgot you had changed ratio's

NASSTY · #16 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Personally, I think it's important to have the ability to fine tune. Chassis dynos can only approximate the loads experienced on an engine when on the road.

Cheers
Al

OZCOBRA · #17 (**permalink**) 10-16-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxhead

One of the "jobs" I wanted to get done was a chance to get the Cobra dyno tuned, as the car was still running a mail order tune from ChipMaster in WA.

Gav had organised a guy to do it for us on the Wednesday before heading to Goulburn.

My car span the dyno to 266Kw with the mail order mafless tune, the dyno guy plugged his laptop in and could not communicate with it, turned out the guy from ChipMaster had locked it.
I contacted him and advised what our problem was and asked if he could supply either the means to unlock it so it could be fine tuned or if he could email the tune to me so if we did wipe it, we could atleast reset it.
To all his answer was NO, he told me to send the ecu to him and he could return it back to a stock tune for free.
So he was more than happy to take my money (cant remember it was either $400 or $600) but did not give a rats arse that there was no way I could get the car to him for fine tuning.
So if anyone asks me I would say steer clear of him.

So Gav's guy had a spare ecu there, we fitted it and he set a base program in, adjusted fan temps removed VATS etc.
After some fine tuning below are the final results.

Very RESPECTABLE numbers Boxhead....Look forward to seeing the future developement!!!

Now I've just noticed your account has been Suspended

,after the little spat on LS1 with Chipmaster .....A bit week when you can't call into question suppliers of performance gear...and you were as it was only quoting your experience....gota say i'm on your side with this one!!!

Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
boxhead boxhead is offline
Account Suspended

Doubledip · #18 (**permalink**) 10-16-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZCOBRA

Very RESPECTABLE numbers Boxhead....Look forward to seeing the future developement!!!

Now I've just noticed your account has been Suspended

,after the little spat on LS1 with Chipmaster .....A bit week when you can't call into question suppliers of performance gear...and you were as it was only quoting your experience....gota say i'm on your side with this one!!!

Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
boxhead boxhead is offline
Account Suspended

You say it is a bit weak what has happened but I think you all need to read what has been posted over there on the LS1 forums and get the facts before everyone jumps on board and bags out sponsors/tuners.

I for one feel it is every tuners right to 'Lock' an ECU after tuning it as you don't want some Dumbass newbie tuner stealing all you hard earned knowledge/IP and selling it off as his. So buyer beware when having your tune locked by them - but they all will unlock it and put the tune back to standard.

But the point that needs to be made on this particular event is that the ECU was not locked by the Tuner (chipmaster) as he clearly stated on the other forum that it was tuned with his proprietary software. This meant that it could not be read by EFILIVE or HP's but if EFILIVE was available he could make it flash back in a base tune.

You paid for a Mail-order tune and you received one, and a bloody good one as the numbers you are pulling there seem to be right where a cammed 6.0L should be (but we wont go there - hold my tongue). I don't think you have the right to continually bag him out and then also do it in a public place for all to see. It is best to speak to the person responsible and resolve it with him. You said he offered to return it to stock for free. He has basically given you all he can.

If you planned on having it tuned further on down the track you really should have done more research and checked with possible tuners you were likely to be able to get the car to and ask them to put in a running tune with them having the knowledge of you taking the car to them for the final dyno tune - you would have been far happier.

I know of a fair few guys on here who have been in the situation of wanting a tune to start their car and have it running but with the likelihood of further tuning and they have done the research and are now happy with the service they have receive from their respective tuners.

So if you want to warn others do it short and sweet - tell people to watch out for locked tunes or for PCM's tuned with proprietary software - there is no need to name names as he clearly did nothing wrong .. don't drag it on whinging all the way. No one wants to see anyone ripped off and clearly you weren't.

....... now i wait

for the responses

boxhead · #19 (**permalink**) 10-16-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubledip

You say it is a bit weak what has happened but I think you all need to read what has been posted over there on the LS1 forums and get the facts before everyone jumps on board and bags out sponsors/tuners.

I for one feel it is every tuners right to 'Lock' an ECU after tuning it as you don't want some Dumbass newbie tuner stealing all you hard earned knowledge/IP and selling it off as his. So buyer beware when having your tune locked by them - but they all will unlock it and put the tune back to standard.

But the point that needs to be made on this particular event is that the ECU was not locked by the Tuner (chipmaster) as he clearly stated on the other forum that it was tuned with his proprietary software. This meant that it could not be read by EFILIVE or HP's but if EFILIVE was available he could make it flash back in a base tune.

You paid for a Mail-order tune and you received one, and a bloody good one as the numbers you are pulling there seem to be right where a cammed 6.0L should be (but we wont go there - hold my tongue). I don't think you have the right to continually bag him out and then also do it in a public place for all to see. It is best to speak to the person responsible and resolve it with him. You said he offered to return it to stock for free. He has basically given you all he can.

If you planned on having it tuned further on down the track you really should have done more research and checked with possible tuners you were likely to be able to get the car to and ask them to put in a running tune with them having the knowledge of you taking the car to them for the final dyno tune - you would have been far happier.

I know of a fair few guys on here who have been in the situation of wanting a tune to start their car and have it running but with the likelihood of further tuning and they have done the research and are now happy with the service they have receive from their respective tuners.

So if you want to warn others do it short and sweet - tell people to watch out for locked tunes or for PCM's tuned with proprietary software - there is no need to name names as he clearly did nothing wrong .. don't drag it on whinging all the way. No one wants to see anyone ripped off and clearly you weren't.

....... now i wait

for the responses

DoubleDip, Thanks for your opinion (even though it was not asked for.
At no stage during all of my posts on LS1.com.au did I bag the guy who did the job, and as you have noted I did infact sing his praises regarding such good numbers.
What I did do was try to make my point that I specified what my needs and future intentions where, yet he still happily did th etune and took my money, knowing fully that by doing so my future needs could not be achieved.

I would rather he have said, "Sorry I cant do it as only my software will be able to access it in the future".

In regards to it being locked, my initial phone call to him from Mildura he said it was locked for his own protection, then early in the LS1 thread (I cant go back and check until 7.00am tomorrow) I am sure he said it was locked.
Then later he claims it is not locked but can not be accessed due to his Special Operating System (so is as good as locked), even though he knew I needed to access it later.

How can you claim I was not ripped off? I advised the seller what I wanted, he supplied me the goods, it was later found that what was supplied was not what was asked for.

Once again DoubleDip, I thank you.
My issue is with ChipMaster, I raised the point with him privatly, with no success, so I did it publically in a forum where I knew he would be able to see my question and give me an answer, now you have managed to bring it up on a new forum, Thanks.

boxhead · #20 (**permalink**) 10-16-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZCOBRA

Very RESPECTABLE numbers Boxhead....Look forward to seeing the future developement!!!

Now I've just noticed your account has been Suspended

,after the little spat on LS1 with Chipmaster .....A bit week when you can't call into question suppliers of performance gear...and you were as it was only quoting your experience....gota say i'm on your side with this one!!!

Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
boxhead boxhead is offline
Account Suspended

Yes I have emailed the forum moderators and asked why my account was suspended.
When first suspended the note said breach of T&C (terms and conditions), I have a copy of there terms and conditions and can not see where I have breached them (I would obviously be lookeing with foggy glasses on) so if anyone who has read the thread has the time to check the T&C please let me know if I overstepped any boundarys (so I dont do it again)