ESC mandatory

[Baz]

Originally Posted by boxhead

I am not sure if other builders have seen this before, but the NT MVR supplied me this link with a checklist of all relevant ADR requirements.
He advised these are Australia wide.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...t_3Feb2006.pdf
He advised the Cobra is classed as a MA vehicle, and that each state and territory can approve exemptions to requirements, example being I am permitted to run live side pipes each side.

He also advised, "information regarding applicable ADRs for your vehicle can be found in the National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (VSB 14), a link to which is below";

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa.../vsb_ncop.aspx

Also, "Section LO contains a brief description of vehicle categories and ADRs, as well as applicability tables";

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...s_3Feb2006.pdf

So as far as his interpretations go, then all states and territories in Australia are supposed to be following these regs, thought that might give you more info Baz.

Thanks Dave. I'm compiling quite a dossier.

Baz

[Merv and Sharon]

I really think that this is worth pursuing. A concerted effort from those of us who have largely finished our builds would give greater confidence and support to those in progress or contemplating a build. If we had a small group in each State that could compile info on their particular situation (there is a good deal of info here already) and then through the national body approach the kit manufacturers - or go directly to the Transport Ministers agenda, I am sure that some progress could be made. I am happy to assist up this way, as I am sure others are.

How many Cobras have been built in Australia and how many are in construction? Do we have a ballpark on this? What is the 'value' of the industry? Is there any approximation on that?

Merv

[Zedn]

Boxhead,
Thanks for posting that checklist, what a great document. I hadn't found that on the net, i have just been reading the ADR's for information but that summarises it nicely.

Rebel1,
Thats exactly what i am doing, as i said i am going to book in to get the chassis test done in a few weeks. I would never make any build decisions without running by an engineer.

Baz,
I hope you don't think i was trying to poo poo the idea of approaching the poli's i just dont have the time actively do that, work full time and build the car plus keep the current wife happy. I think its a great idea and would be a fantastic step forward for the industry.

Liam

[*Cobber*]

Please be aware that the NCOP only represents the technical requirements that must be met - administrative requirements are dealt with separately by each state and territory's administrative guidelines or business rules.

Each engineer will focus on their own pet thing. Some love doing brake tests while others fuss about windscreen wipers.

This is the checklist I used, after I submitted it I was required to get another engineer to counter sign it for transparency reasons.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...t_3Feb2006.pdf

A couple of photo's a letter and I was through.

I don't doubt there is a National system but it is not enforced the same in each state and the goal posts can and do move.

The dumb thing about the current checklist 2006 is that some of the items on the list are no longer required as part of current ADR's.

Things like glare reduction in the field of view and unleaded fuel stickers etc etc etc.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Zedn

Boxhead,
Thanks for posting that checklist, what a great document. I hadn't found that on the net, i have just been reading the ADR's for information but that summarises it nicely.

Rebel1,
Thats exactly what i am doing, as i said i am going to book in to get the chassis test done in a few weeks. I would never make any build decisions without running by an engineer.

Baz,
I hope you don't think i was trying to poo poo the idea of approaching the poli's i just dont have the time actively do that, work full time and build the car plus keep the current wife happy. I think its a great idea and would be a fantastic step forward for the industry.

Liam

Sorry guys. Iv'e settled down now and am back on the team after my little dummy spit. After all, my Cobra will be finished and registered soon and I won't have anything else to do.

At the moment I am drafting a Ministerial submission to the NSW Shadow Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian. After the State elections in 2011, she will be the Transport Minister. I feel that she would be quite interested in how far behind the other States NSW is in relation to the Kit Car industry and may be quite receptive to look at new Legislation pertaining to 'Replicas.' I will also be discussing Street Rods and the benefits of their exemptions compared to what Kit Car builders have to endue.

Another aspect of my submission will be the huge number of people that are employed in the Kit Car Industry as well as other occupations that feed off it. This should really open her eyes.

The cornerstone of my submission will be the introduction of a Memorandum of Understanding signed by the Owner/Builder and also by the RTA at the commencement of a build. That document, which I will prepare, will state what ADR's are to be complied with by the builder over a nominated period of 4 years or sooner if the build is completed in that time. No new ADR's can be added during the nominated period. Unfortunately this si exactly what is happening in NSW at the moment.

I have one Replica builder on side and he is firmly on the team. Keep those ideas coming in.

In my prior life before retirement, a major component of my job involved preparing lengthy and complicated Ministerial submissions and drafting proposed Legislation, so this is right up my alley.


Keep those ideas flowing in. Every bit helps.


Regards
Baz

[Merv and Sharon]

Well done Baz. Let us know if we can help. There seems to be no time period specified in any of my correspondence in QLD. We are not as 'liberal' as WA and NT perhaps but close. I do think that some idea of the number of vehicles constructed and in construction and a dollar value of the industry focusses the attention of our law makers and regulation adjusters!

Merv

[Rebel1]

Baz, Good on you mate. Keep us posted as your efforts in NSW need expanding to all States.

For what it's worth, I believe a Cobra build, irrespective of the kit, is less of an Individually Constructed Vehicle than are some of the Street Rods I have seen.

We (Cobra builders) tend to build as the kit manufacturer intended and if we make changes they are usually to improve braking/suspension/handling etc. Certainly there are individual touches but these "individual touches" are mostly cosmetic with little changes to the manufacturers intention.

I'm sure many of us have seen Street Rods with huge blown engines, beam front axles, upright bus type steering columns, and bench seats with no head rests which do little to locate the driver in the vehicle. Whilst one can appreciate the effort put in by some Street Rod builders, the machines often wise just don't look safe.

Keep us posted Baz.

[Zedn]

Good on you Baz. If you need some support from others by emails or letters i am happy to help.

It would be great for this approval to clearly list every ADR number applicable to the approval and more importantly a list of exclusions. I think its BS that there is not a clear criteria that a builder can work to.

Part of my work is both assisting organisations to develop and implement management systems to International and Australian Standards, and auditing companies and issuing certification to standards (eg ISO9001, ISO14001, AS4801 etc). If told my clients i was going to show up and audit them against an unpublished or documented standard do you think they would let me in the door of their business?

[sambo]

Are the states working together on this or will the submission just be to the NSW RTA?

[boxhead]

My personal view is that it should be submitted to the Aust Gov to make the ruling the same in every State and Territory.

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by boxhead

My personal view is that it should be submitted to teh Aust Gov to make the ruling the same in every State and Territory.

Totally agree, I feel if Baz wants to head this up at a NSW and Federal level we can I'm sure, find co-ordinators in each state to assist Baz at a local level.

I'm sure Baz will contact John Staszynski in SA to carry on where John left off.

Baz, I have sent John's Contact details to you by PM.

[*Cobber*]

An article in the kit car magazine to stir up the cause to the greater kit car market.

Interesting to see that there are kit suppliers that haunt this forum but have not chimed in.

It's a hobby for me and my car is registered so my care factor is low, if it were my business it would be quite different.

Happy to help out where I can though.

[boxhead]

I too am happy to help where I can Baz.

P.M sent with my personal contact details.

[Philm]

HI Baz,
I am watching with interest and completely understand and accept the need to take this action.

Not to make an excuse but please appreciate that this is a lot of work which as you say means time. Time is not what I have, I currently spend up to 30hours per week on Cobra stuff, with the nationls and local club stuff. I certainly can not afford anymore time to spend on the club, not that I don't want to it is that I don't have the time.

I am happy to support you Baz, as I said to you please put it on the clubs meeting agenda and we will get the action started.

Phil

[Merv and Sharon]

I agree Cobber. Also willing to help at this end of the nation, and I sure Les and others are too. I appreciate your situation Phil but really all you have to do is support the development and those in each state who would agree to be the spokespersons, particularly Baz if he is willing to take a lead on this.

Merv

[spookypt]

My 2 cents worth... This issue was raised some time ago in QLD with initial discussion and meetings held.... I believe if my memory serves me true that we had representations from DRB (Pete R), RCR (Craig W), Venom (Scott H), Snakebite (Don P) plus a fair few others who met to discuss. Sorry can;t remeber them all. By the end of the meeting we had more ?'s than answers and no clear outline going forward and I don't believe another meeting was held.

Having said that recently in QLD a 32 Roadster (I think) with a reverse sprung beam axle and a blown 460 Big Block passed rego!

Go figure....

[Baz]

Originally Posted by *Cobber*

An article in the kit car magazine to stir up the cause to the greater kit car market.

Interesting to see that there are kit suppliers that haunt this forum but have not chimed in.

It's a hobby for me and my car is registered so my care factor is low, if it were my business it would be quite different.

Happy to help out where I can though.

Here Here Cobber,

You have been reading my mind. Isn't it bloody amazing. Come on you gutless wonders. Commit yourselves, because if you don;t, you'll perish, there will be no industry.

Baz

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Philm

HI Baz,
I am watching with interest and completely understand and accept the need to take this action.

Not to make an excuse but please appreciate that this is a lot of work which as you say means time. Time is not what I have, I currently spend up to 30hours per week on Cobra stuff, with the nationls and local club stuff. I certainly can not afford anymore time to spend on the club, not that I don't want to it is that I don't have the time.

I am happy to support you Baz, as I said to you please put it on the clubs meeting agenda and we will get the action started.

Phil

Thanks for responding Phil. That is a real positive and knowing that you fully understand what I am trying to do here, provides me with the motivation to carry on. I'm not in this for personal recognition or any thing like that. I've wanted this car for 45 years. I didn't know that the State Government would stuff me around with he mid build changes which I experienced or I would have bought a car which was fully completed. Now that I'm nearing completion, I really feel that others could benefit from what I have learnt in the process.

It is quite obvious from the support I have gleaned on this thread that this is a VERY topical subject and one that needs driving through to fruition.

I do have the time to persue this and I think that I have the experience and expertise to have things changed for the better. We have to think of those who are coming after us and to make things easier for them. That's how I think anyrate.

Baz

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by spookypt

Having said that recently in QLD a 32 Roadster (I think) with a reverse sprung beam axle and a blown 460 Big Block passed rego!

Go figure....

And that thing is not classed as an ICV. We are more "conventional" and "alike" in our builds yet get more grief to register.

Originally Posted by Baz

I do have the time to persue this and I think that I have the experience and expertise to have things changed for the better. We have to think of those who are coming after us and to make things easier for them. That's how I think anyrate.

Baz

Good stuff Baz, go get 'em.

Les

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Philm

HI Baz,
I am watching with interest and completely understand and accept the need to take this action.

Not to make an excuse but please appreciate that this is a lot of work which as you say means time. Time is not what I have, I currently spend up to 30hours per week on Cobra stuff, with the nationls and local club stuff. I certainly can not afford anymore time to spend on the club, not that I don't want to it is that I don't have the time.

I am happy to support you Baz, as I said to you please put it on the clubs meeting agenda and we will get the action started.

Phil

I am really glad that you have responded in a positive manner Phil. I'm not trying to make a name for myself here. I'm just trying to improve the build situation for those who folllow and to help them from experiencing the frustrations which I have encountered.

I have the time and the experience to get what we need. All I need is support.

Baz