ESC mandatory - Page 9

Krait · #**161** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009, 09:03 AM

Merv,

Peter Gillard owns Chamonix Australia and is also an approved NSW RTA engineer, guess he knows what is going on.

Cheers

martrogers · #**162** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 02:44 AM

Success, a reply from Anthony Albanese (or rather Stephen Spencer, Acting General Mgr, Vehicle Safety Standards, on his behalf).

Meat of the letter is:

"The primary focus of your letter appears to be on kit cars that are built as ICVs for personal use. ICVs are regulated by the states and territories.The Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government (the Department) will raise the issue of ESC requirements for such vehicles at the next meeting of the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board on 25 November 2009 and provide you with further advice. The Board comprises the Department and territory registration authorities.

Commonwealth certification arrangements apply to vehicles supplied commercially in limited numbers. While no consideration is currently being given to exemptions from ESC requirements, it is open to low volume manufacturers to provide the Department with more details of their cases. The contact is Mr Robert Hogan, the Administrator of Vehicle Standards, on email robert.hogan@infrastructure.gov.au"

So, anyone who has an interest in this issue should probably drop Mr Hogan an email before their meeting. Those who think "she'll be right" should note the last para...

Rob. Smith · #**163** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 02:59 AM

Could this be the reason Superformance supplies a complete vehicle...less an engine ?

Zedn · #**164** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 03:00 AM

Martin,

This is a great bit of progress!

Lets all get emails off to Robert Hogan, now is the time to let them know we exist!

Great work Martin!

Rebel1 · #**165** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 03:06 AM

My email will be off tonight.

We also need to spread the word to as many members as possible.

Zedn · #**166** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 03:12 AM

I just emailed Robert at kitcar magazine to see if he can help. They are printing at the moment so with any luck we can get a note in with the subscriptions.

Liam

400TT · #**167** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martrogers

Success, a reply from Anthony Albanese (or rather Stephen Spencer, Acting General Mgr, Vehicle Safety Standards, on his behalf).

Meat of the letter is:

"The primary focus of your letter appears to be on kit cars that are built as ICVs for personal use. ICVs are regulated by the states and territories.The Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government (the Department) will raise the issue of ESC requirements for such vehicles at the next meeting of the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board on 25 November 2009 and provide you with further advice. The Board comprises the Department and territory registration authorities.

Commonwealth certification arrangements apply to vehicles supplied commercially in limited numbers. While no consideration is currently being given to exemptions from ESC requirements, it is open to low volume manufacturers to provide the Department with more details of their cases. The contact is Mr Robert Hogan, the Administrator of Vehicle Standards, on email robert.hogan@infrastructure.gov.au"

So, anyone who has an interest in this issue should probably drop Mr Hogan an email before their meeting. Those who think "she'll be right" should note the last para...

Great work.

But this does outline the real problem. It really doesn't matter what the Commonwealth decides as the states and territories can overrule and do so. So a particular state can mandate extra requirements such as ESC even if it is not a National requirement. Just have a look at the rules now, each state asks for extra requirements and those extra requirements are different in each state. Just the way ICV regulations currently work.

martrogers · #**168** (**permalink**) 11-13-2009, 01:39 AM

I'm no expert here but it says "The Board comprises the Department and territory registration authorities."

Surely it is worthwhile trying to influence these guys as early in the process as possible? How hard can it be to send an email?

400TT · #**169** (**permalink**) 11-13-2009, 02:43 AM

Sure doesn't hurt to send an email.

But I'm just letting you know because even if they decide against it for ICV's at this meeting, doesn't mean it's over. Any state can decide at any stage if they want to incorporate ESC for ICV's. And can do without any notice.

Just making sure everyones eyes are open to how the current system works.

Modena · #**170** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 05:21 AM

Vic already jumped the gun and are saying it will be mandatory by Jan 1 2011, I am sending that infra guy my email before Nov 25.

Zedn · #**171** (**permalink**) 11-22-2009, 11:13 PM

Quick update on this topic.

I received an email from Mr Hogan today as follows:

Quote:

Dear Mr Martin

As you are aware, the Australian Government announced on 23 June 2009 that ESC would be mandated through the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) for new vehicle models from 1 November 2011. Research both here and overseas has found that the technology has a significant potential to save lives and make our roads safer.

In line with your suggestion, the Department intends to raise the issue of ESC requirements for Individually Constructed Vehicles at the meeting of the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board on 25 November 2009. The Board comprises the Department and state and territory registration authorities. I will advise you further of the outcome.

Commonwealth certification arrangements apply to vehicles supplied commercially in limited numbers. While no consideration is currently being given to exemptions from ESC requirements, it is open to low volume manufacturers to provide the Department (me in the first instance) with more details of their cases.

Regards

Robert Hogan

Basically the same response as Martin had, but at least they are aware of the situation.

If any manufacturers are watching this thread, please send off an email to Mr Hogan. I know he is refering to LV manufacturers, but kit manufacturers should also be making noise.

Cheers

Modena · #**172** (**permalink**) 11-23-2009, 03:15 AM

I also sent an email to Mr Hogan, will advise if I receive a response.

Zedn · #**173** (**permalink**) 11-25-2009, 01:04 AM

Got the latest issue of Kitcar mag today, and we got a good amount of coverage for this issue. Robert even slipped a note in with the mag that was a summary of an email i sent him to tell everyone to send off emails.

Thanks Kit Car Magazine!

Baz · #**174** (**permalink**) 11-25-2009, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedn

Got the latest issue of Kitcar mag today, and we got a good amount of coverage for this issue. Robert even slipped a note in with the mag that was a summary of an email i sent him to tell everyone to send off emails.

Thanks Kit Car Magazine!

I certtainly agree. Well done Robert Jacobs. Liam... I received the same response.

Baz

Zedn · #**175** (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 12:15 AM

Just to provide an update, here is the latest from Robert Hogan:

Quote:

Dear Mr Hogan,

Thankyou for the response to my previous email regarding ESC. As per your response below, I am anxiously awaiting to hear the outcome of the meeting held last week. Did the Board reach any conclusions about the possibility for exclusions to this requirement?

Thanks in advance.

Quote:

Liam

The Board still has this matter under consideration but agreed that, until it develops a joint position, queries should be directed to individual states and territories which have regulatory responsibility for ICVs.

Regards

Robert

Looks like its going to be up to each state.

Baz · #**176** (**permalink**) 12-03-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedn

Just to provide an update, here is the latest from Robert Hogan:

Looks like its going to be up to each state.

Great, Our brand new Premier, Christine Kneally should know all about ESC in ICV's.

Baz

Modena · #**177** (**permalink**) 12-16-2009, 01:29 AM

I have also been in correspondence with Mr Hogan, and received similar feedback, add to that he doesn't think any federal ruling will ever be published, and we should direct enquiries to state authorities.

I guess it will be state-based case-by-case until they get sick of having people call, and then hopefully they will publish a state ruling.

Zedn · #**178** (**permalink**) 12-16-2009, 11:15 PM

Unfortunately you are correct. It seems no one is willing to make a blanket decision so they just pass the buck. I think the fact that it isnt actually in force yet makes it difficult for us to talk with state leaders about it as they can't make amendments to federal legislation, only grant case by case exceptions (correct me if i am wrong).

Really all we can do is wait till the Vic boys start having to deal with it Jan 2011 and get behind them anyway we can to set a precendance for other states.

Currently i am on track to be ready for rego around June 2011 so i am hoping to scrape through. However, given the stupid amount of time the rego process seems to take, 5 months may not be enough for me.

Unfortunately at this stage ESC seems like it could go either way.

Liam

Rob. Smith · #**179** (**permalink**) 12-19-2009, 03:48 AM

Zedn,
You may have to take my strategy and just assemble the vehicle, get it registered and then rebuild it pretty. My vehicle passed rego (in NSW) with the body in bare gellcoat white with bog repairs, the chassis in black and bare welds, landrover indicators and brake lights, no windscreen, a flat black painted dash and gauges. All the bright work was painted black and it had an anemic exhaust system to pass noise. Altogether a very ugly car but it passed and now I am doing it right. Happy in the knowledge that the car doesn't need to meet any more of the RTA's illogical and unreasonable demands.

Zedn · #**180** (**permalink**) 12-19-2009, 04:50 AM

Hi Rob,

Yeah, that is my current plan. I am painting all the suspension, brakes and chassis nice but body and interior apart from the basics will be done after rego. I have just about finished the suspension and brakes, then will be placing the order for the wheels in about three weeks. I will then get the steering sorted and I plan to buy the engine and gearbox with my tax return in July. Hopefully will be ready for rego early to mid 2011.

I am doing the body and interior myself, so if i find myself with spare time whilst saving for parts i may get some of this done.

What did you do for a windscreen for rego? Just perspex? If there is no windsceen then you dont need wipers, or demister correct? Sounds interesting, i read somewhere some others did the same.

Liam