ESC mandatory

[Zedn]

Sorry if this has been posted before.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/33443/go...ory-from-2011/

Seems Electronic Stability control is going to be required come 2011. Has anyone spoken to an engineer about this and what our options may be? I dont think my car will be completed before then so probably need to start planning for this now. I wonder if there will be concesions if you started the build before hand.

Some how i don't think it will be very economical to fit one of these systems to a cobra.

Liam

[sambo]

Excellent, this should help get funding approved to finish my car before the end of next year!

[Zedn]

Ha! Good point!

[Mando]

Zedn, you only have to comply with the ADR regs that apply for the year you submit your paperwork to build your kit. I started my build in 2002 so every year I apply for another extension but I only need to meet ADR's that were in place in 2002.

Regards.

[Merv and Sharon]

This could influence the value of second hand Cobras?

Merv

[Zedn]

Zedn, you only have to comply with the ADR regs that apply for the year you submit your paperwork to build your kit. I started my build in 2002 so every year I apply for another extension but I only need to meet ADR's that were in place in 2002.

Regards.

Paperwork? I dont think that we do that in NSW. Well at least the engineer didn't mention it. I have heard that you have to register your intent to builid the car and get approval in other states but i dont think thats the case in NSW. Can anyone confirm this?

I suppose my first visit to the Engineer for chassis testing in a few weeks will be my record of when i started.

Liam

[gjkrv8]

Originally Posted by Zedn

Paperwork? I dont think that we do that in NSW. Well at least the engineer didn't mention it. I have heard that you have to register your intent to builid the car and get approval in other states but i dont think thats the case in NSW. Can anyone confirm this?

I suppose my first visit to the Engineer for chassis testing in a few weeks will be my record of when i started.

Liam

Hi Liam,

In VIC you need to make contact with an ICV Vic Roads Engineer and "register" your build - nothing formal. But you need to provide proof of your major purchase - i.e. chassis ans thats DOM - Date of Manufacture or build date and you must comply with ADRs from that date. You then get 3 years to build it.

I think NSW is similar.

Regarding ESC - My beef is - Why do we continually need to get car manufacturers to compensate for crappy drivers. Why dont we make things like defensive driver training mandatory and a regular refreshers etc.

One good thing they have done is that in VIC all learners need to run a log book and run up 120 hours prior to getitng their license. My son who is 17 is going through this now. I can see marked improvements in his driving as he starts to get up to around the 70 hour mark. Of course you can fudge the log book but most people give it a fair stab.

End of my rant.

rgds

Gregg

[Tenrocca]

Zden, you don't need to register your build with the rta in nsw as far as i know

[OZCOBRA]

Take out Passenger seat then your no longer a Passenger vehicle or SUV...... NO ESC

[Baz]

Having commenced my build in 2007 and now to the point that it's almost complete, I can definately confirm that what Mando says, applies in other States, BUT DOES NOT APPLY IN NSW. Here, you don't inform the RTA that you are commencing an ICV and they don't give you three years to complete it. You build it, then when a new ADR comes out, you modify the build to comply with that ADR. I know, because it's happened to me on a few occasions now.

It would be great if all the States were consistent. It should work like this right throughout the Country:-

When you are preparing to commence a build, you enter into a signed Memorandum of Understanding with the Licensensing Authority which in my case would be the NSW RTA. That Memorandum of Understanding would be in the form of a Build Document issued by the RTA, outlining all the ADR's and other requirements with which you have to comply in order to have your ICV registered. It would specify a build time, say 4 years, and you could go about your build without worrying what changes to ADR's may effect you in the future. Any new ADR's issued after the memorandum of Understanding was signed would not apply to you. What a simple solution and one which would work efficiently Australia wide.

I would like to hear your comments on this idea.

Baz

[gjkrv8]

Gee Baz, thats pretty tough, that if things change half way through, you have to then modify your build to comply.

I agree that all the states should align, but that might be asking too much as they dont align on whole heap of other things.

Rgds

Gregg

[Mando]

Bazz/Gregg I think you guys are right, all states should align and work under the same rules but I don't like the idea of having to redo things because a rule has changed nor having to finish the build within a certain time. As I said earlier I apply for an extension every year, my next one will be number 8.

Regards.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Mando

Bazz/Gregg I think you guys are right, all states should align and work under the same rules but I don't like the idea of having to redo things because a rule has changed nor having to finish the build within a certain time. As I said earlier I apply for an extension every year, my next one will be number 8.

Regards.

Mando and Gregg,

I'm not backwards in coming forwards. If I get enough support through the Forum, I am quite prepared to make personal representations to the Federal Minister for Transport in an attempt to try and have Regulations drafted along the lines of what I have disscussed earlier. All I need is majority support from members of ALL STATES.

Baz.

[*Cobber*]

ESC in a cobra...... good luck.

I suspect ICV's may be able to get an exemption if not the kit suppliers need to start lobbying now or they will all go out of business.

[Aussie Mike]

We have exemptions from the mandatory frontal and side impact protection testing under the ICV scheme. I think this would fall under the same banner.

[Merv and Sharon]

I believe we also have exemptions from the need to fit ABS and air bags. Why should this be different? A letter to the Transport Minister in each State or territory would force a reply surely.

Merv

[Zedn]

Thanks everyone for the input, especially the NSW guys.

Baz i was worried that what you say might be the case with having to make the changes. Hopefully the boffins want have to many more meeting in the next few years before i am finished. National legislation framework would make things easy i agree, but they would probably just enforce the strict requirements of each state. Being able to lock in you ADR's would make things easy. Being able to purchase a publication with a set standard for adaptation of ADRs for ICV's would make things even easier.

I agree with the idea of what they are trying to achieve, as to be honest i would want my family driving cars that have the ESC (currently we all do). But i guess its another example minority suffering.

Who knows, maybe we are jumping to conclusions and the engineers will give an exemption.

At the end of the day the mechanics of fitting the system is not a concern for me. If i had all the parts sitting in a box i could make it work. All it is, is a bunch of sensors for each wheel, a yaw sensor, hydraulic pump and computer. But Something tells me the cost of aquiring all the bits could be expensive. And who knows what calibration is involved.

I am planning to take my chassis for testing in a few weeks when i hire a trailer to move house. I will pick the engineers brain whilst i am at it about what this might mean.

Liam

[Zedn]

I believe we also have exemptions from the need to fit ABS and air bags. Why should this be different? A letter to the Transport Minister in each State or territory would force a reply surely.

Merv

Good point. Hopefully i am jumping to conclusions.

[Mando]

Bazz, the former President of the Cobra Club in S.A. has been involved in lobbying for not only consistent rules, but for exemptions similar to those enjoyed by the Hot Rod community for many years. You may already know of John Staszinski but if you want his contact details let me know.

Regards.

[gjkrv8]

Originally Posted by Zedn

Good point. Hopefully i am jumping to conclusions.

I think the reason why we dont have to fit ABS/Airbags is because they are not a mandatory item (yet).

Rgds

Gregg