Clutch line size.

sfeakes · #1 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 06:27 PM

I have tried a lot of different fixes over the years and have never been satisfied with the clutch, it's constantly overheating and a complete ***** to get into gear once hot, and reverse is almost impossible. So I'm going to brake down and run a new line over the foot box, buy a flaring kit and all that junk, and sleeve the pipe with heat reflective insulation.
One question I have is, what's the correct size of the line? Seems most stainless lines are 1/4, 3/8 or 5/16. I could measure the stock one, but I have no idea if the sizes listed are ID or OD, so that's pointless.

The other question is how is the carped attached to the inside trans tunnel? Seems the only option is to drill out a few of the rivets holding on the "look nice plating" in the engine bay and re-rivet with a clamp of some kind to hole the line. To do this, I'll need to remove the carpet. Seems it's glued in place, if so, what's the chances of ripping the carpet while I try to remove it, and what kind-a glue should be used to put it back.

Cheers

Cashburn · #2 (**permalink**) 04-07-2010, 07:22 PM

First, why are you taking the carpet off the tunnel?

Second, you can buy the updated hard line for the clutch directly from Backdraft and save yourself an amazing level of frustration trying to make your own line.

sfeakes · #3 (**permalink**) 04-08-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

First, why are you taking the carpet off the tunnel?

Second, you can buy the updated hard line for the clutch directly from Backdraft and save yourself an amazing level of frustration trying to make your own line.

Thanks for the info Jay.

I figured I need to clip the clutch line to the foot box / trans tunnel, in a similar style to the original clutch and brake lines. To get the clips in, (if I rivet them like the original) I'll need access to the other side of the fiberglass, that's why I figured I'd need to remove the carpet. I suppose I could use new holes and small self tapping screw, but I was going to try to make it all match the original riveted lines.

Any idea on a part# or URL on there website? I can't find any clutch lines listed.

Cheers.

Cashburn · #4 (**permalink**) 04-08-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfeakes

Any idea on a part# or URL on there website? I can't find any clutch lines listed.

Cheers.

Per usual advice on dealing with FL Boys... give'em a call.

sfeakes · #5 (**permalink**) 04-08-2010, 12:19 PM

Thanks, I just gave them a call, and they don't sell the line. Said they "may" be able to get one from the factory, but the install would be a real pain since it's routed under the steering column. (on #329 I don't think there is enough room to route it under the column without cutting some fiberglass). They also couldn't tell me the pipe/line size, but suggested I use a flexible braided line for the whole run of master to slave or remove the stock hard line and re-bend it.

So I'm kind-a back at square one since I think a hard line is best, and knowing my luck, I'll break the original one if I re-bend it.

sfeakes · #6 (**permalink**) 04-08-2010, 05:35 PM

Just in case anyone is doing the same. After a lot of searching I found that Brake & Clutch piping is measured by the O.D. so that's easy, it's 4.75mm or 3/16.

Blittleton · #7 (**permalink**) 04-08-2010, 08:26 PM

Why not use the braided hose, you just have to use a brake line type. It will be easier to run and look good. You start bending rigid line and you don't know what you are doing, you will either kink the tube or it will look terrible. Plus if you have to do a double flare on the tube, you may run into issues there as well.

Bill

sfeakes · #8 (**permalink**) 04-09-2010, 09:01 AM

No real reason other than braided hose will require a lot more mounting clips that means drilling more holes, I also wanted to try to keep it stock / clean looking.

From what I have read, it seems 45deg double flare is quite easy on the steel copper alloy tubing that Backdraft use. If I upgrade to Stainless Steel tubing, that's where the super expensive ~$300 flaring tools are needed. But I've never tried either, so don't know for sure.
I just found out that NAPA sell pre-flared (with ends) steel copper tubing in just about any length you need for around $10, then you just need to bend it with a bending tool. So I think I'll try that route first, and if I mess up a few pipes, I'm not out much.
Now I just need to think about if I'm going to stick with a pull slave or go back to a push setup.

Trueoo7 · #9 (**permalink**) 04-09-2010, 09:49 PM

When I rerouted my clutch line I went to Home Depot and bought about 10' of #6 grounding wire (green insulation) which is about the same size as the tubing. Then I bent it into position in the car. Its fairly rigid and will hold its shape so you can remove it and use it as a template to get the tubing very close to what you need. You may have to tweak the tubing a little by hand when you get it in the car but it worked great for me. I also painted it black so it blends right in, over the footbox and along the firewall.

Rwillia4 · #10 (**permalink**) 04-10-2010, 01:45 AM

True-

Thar is a great idea for a template!!

JUS BIT · #11 (**permalink**) 04-17-2010, 07:45 PM

I would suggest getting a stainless steel braided hose that comes prefitted with 3an female fittings on each side. Like these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-63010148ERL/

No need to use the clamps all over. Just run the hose away from the heat and then use a couple of clamps like you would use for the throttle cable.

Then, get fittings to convert 3an to the Master Cylinder and 3an to the Slave.

Bests, James

sfeakes · #12 (**permalink**) 04-19-2010, 08:17 AM

Thanks for all the help and ideas.
I ended up finding pre-made lines at the local NAPA, I used 60" line with 3/8"-24 inverted flare ends. It was dead simple to bend and make fit. I have those Earls lines james but 10" length that I was going to use to replace the stock rubber line. But I couldn't find the correct fittings / adapters so I'm using stock until I can find them.

I ended up going back to a push slave from GCPC, but had to modify it a bit to make it work in my setup. This will be the earls braided line once I get the fittings.

Added a second heatshield just for the clutch.

Also ended up machining up an extension for the clutch pedal arm, just so I could get more adjustment in pedal location and throw.

JUS BIT · #13 (**permalink**) 04-19-2010, 10:11 AM

That looks great! Excellent work!

James

bobinyelm · #14 (**permalink**) 06-02-2010, 07:40 PM

I just found this thread, and realize that it's apparently NORMAL for the clutches to act MUCH differently hot and cold.

I just got my car going, and on it's second start-and-attempted-drive that I couldn't disengage the clutch hot, yet the next day cold it was perfectly fine.

Is it the Clutch Master Cylinder, or the clutch LINE that is giving the problem? I see this thread deals with the line itself, leading me to believe that IT is the problem?

Also, where did you get the remote reservoir? I assume the stock one has a push-on (not thread-in) reservoir? It's extremely difficult to get to the stock reservoir way up under the fender when cold, but after the engine's been running, forget it!

Bob

Cashburn · #15 (**permalink**) 06-02-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobinyelm

It's extremely difficult to get to the stock reservoir way up under the fender when cold, but after the engine's been running, forget it!

Bob

Take the gill out... wah lah!!!

Rwillia4 · #16 (**permalink**) 06-02-2010, 11:26 PM

I don't think that is normal...mine doesn't do that. Sounds like you have air in the line and the engine heat is causing it to expand.

For filling the reservoir, get a trigger pull small oil bottle it works perfectly when hot or cold. Just make sure to mark it so youdon't put brake fluid where you want oil.

sfeakes · #17 (**permalink**) 06-06-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobinyelm

I just found this thread, and realize that it's apparently NORMAL for the clutches to act MUCH differently hot and cold.

I just got my car going, and on it's second start-and-attempted-drive that I couldn't disengage the clutch hot, yet the next day cold it was perfectly fine.

Is it the Clutch Master Cylinder, or the clutch LINE that is giving the problem? I see this thread deals with the line itself, leading me to believe that IT is the problem?

Also, where did you get the remote reservoir? I assume the stock one has a push-on (not thread-in) reservoir? It's extremely difficult to get to the stock reservoir way up under the fender when cold, but after the engine's been running, forget it!

Bob

I wouldn't say it's normal, But it's a problem the plagues many Cobras. Problem is due to heat. Engine & Exhaust can heat the fluid in the master or the line to a point where it just doesn't work. I tackled the master years ago, many posts about it on this forum.
Early BDR's had the clutch line routed next to the exhaust, (mine was one of these), so that's why I re-routed it.
My master also gave out within the first ~500 miles, so I replaced it with one that has a remote reservoir fitting and used a motorcycle remote reservoir located away from the heat. Changing the master and moving to a remote reservoir made more of a difference than any other modification I've done, and I have tried them all, 3 of 4 different types of heat shields, (puller fans), different slaves etc etc. Plus, makes changing & checking the fluid easy, which is a regular as oil changes on the BDR due to the fluid heating up.
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...028#post775028

This was the original heat shield, but since then BDR and other have made their own version.
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...195#post616195

GLS-BDR226 · #18 (**permalink**) 06-15-2010, 06:45 PM

I am a new owner of BDR #226 with a little over 1700 miles. I have had it for a week and have been enjoying it greatly. I have been read the threads about heat related problems and haven't experienced any of the problems described yet. And this is in Texas heat. However, to avoid problems I thought about buying the heat shield from BDR (type II) but I'm not sure this will fit and I'm not sure where exactly it goes. Without a pic I'm not sure how I would intall this. The car has a 302 HO if this makes a difference.

I do know how to turn a wrench

but any advice is appreciated from a BDR newbie. Thanks!

tony martin · #19 (**permalink**) 06-20-2010, 08:38 AM

THE PIPE SIZE IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

I AM GOING TO TAKE A FLYER HERE AND SUGEST:

CHECK THE STROKE OF YOUR MASTER CYL.

IT SHOULD BE 36-37MM AND WHEN THE PEDAL IS DEPRESSED MAKE SURE THAT IT BOTOMS OUT ON THE M/CYL.

SOME OF OUR CARS SLIPED THROUGH WITH A 32MM STROKE M/CLY.

THE MANUFACTURER DID NOT ADVISE US.

THE MIN. TRAVEL (MARGINAL)THAT U NEED TO ENGAGE WITHOUT GRATING IS 32MM

IF U HAVE 1 OF THE 32MM M/CLY JUST CALL REG AND I WILL SEND U OUT A NEW ONE.

sfeakes · #20 (**permalink**) 06-22-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony martin

THE PIPE SIZE IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

I AM GOING TO TAKE A FLYER HERE AND SUGEST:

CHECK THE STROKE OF YOUR MASTER CYL.

IT SHOULD BE 36-37MM AND WHEN THE PEDAL IS DEPRESSED MAKE SURE THAT IT BOTOMS OUT ON THE M/CYL.

SOME OF OUR CARS SLIPED THROUGH WITH A 32MM STROKE M/CLY.

THE MANUFACTURER DID NOT ADVISE US.

THE MIN. TRAVEL (MARGINAL)THAT U NEED TO ENGAGE WITHOUT GRATING IS 32MM

IF U HAVE 1 OF THE 32MM M/CLY JUST CALL REG AND I WILL SEND U OUT A NEW ONE.

Did you actually read the post, not just the title? No one said the pipe size was the problem.