Clutch Hydraulic Problems

[bobinyelm]

I'll look in Summit more carefully. You can look 50 times and not see everything they have!

At 98 degrees yesterday, it doesn't "Feel" relatively low! Of course, I thought the 10 years I lived in Alaska was just right, so everything is too hot for me.

Frankly, the thought of driving in the sun above 80 degrees is unpleasant to me. The car will be for Spring and Fall days, or Summer nights. I spent my first 30 years (mostly) in rural New England with tree shaded country roads that were perfect for sports cars.

Flat, straight, and treeless Texas kinda sucks in comparison, but hey, there's no income or automobile property tax here. In Connecticut, I probably couldn't get the Cobra licensed, and if I could, I couldn't afford the property tax on it.

Let me know how it works tomorrow. I suspect I'll be copying whatever you do.

Bob

[Blittleton]

I have seen alot of masters cylinders go bad, with very little miles on it. It isn't the heat problem anymore. Maybe just the Master cylinder could be faulty. I definitely seen some faulty slave cylinders. Backdraft has added the shield and routed their lines away from the headers. They have made adjustments to make these more reliable. I have tried several different models of slaves cylinders and have problems with all of them except the ones I'm ready to put out in my store. It has been the most reliable and has a slightly longer throw.

I can understand your concern that the master didn't last very long, but you will find a bad one every now and then. Just this week I sent a car to MN and the car drove perfect and never had any issues until they backed it off the truck and the starter shorted and lost all power to the car. So you never know if something will just give up or the gremlins are out there. If you need any help with your setup let me know. Maybe I can get you a slave setup that will work better for you.

Bill

[bobinyelm]

Thanks, Bill.

That's unfortunate when new components don't hold up. I have been awaiting a replacement steering rack for 3 weeks now because I can't get through inspection w/ the new, but binding rack the car came with, and Reg had to order one from South Africa, and gosh knows how long that takes (I don't have a cross-reference for what will fit). I guess they got a rash of bad racks at one point-Reg seemed to know the problem existed.

Not BDR's fault, but frustrating never the less for folks anxious to get their cars on the road!

I like the idea of a remote reservoir clutch master, but will settle for any one that is without problems!

Before I change anything, I think I will go w/ the Wilwood 600 Plus brake fluid and see if the problems re-appear and go from there.

Do the slaves you had trouble with fail and stay failed, or exhibit intermittent symptoms like mine? No external leaks on mine, so if it was a cylinder, it was probably bypassing the master piston seal I guess, or vapor-locked if the fluid boiled in the line.

I imagine as a dealer, you've "seen it all" by now!

Bob
Just noticed that the fuel gauge also is not working after I added 5 additional gallons to the 3 I put in for the test run, and it still reads zero, so one more bug to run down.

[Blittleton]

bobinyelm,

I don't think you have a vapor lock issue. More or less the Master cylinder is just faulty. It really isn't too difficult to service the clutch master cylinder. I do use another person to help though. You can give me a call to discuss your problem if you like. 859-630-9099

Bill

[bobinyelm]

Thanks, Bill.

I will take you up on that, at a decent hour, of course.

Bob

[jhv48]

Well, so far so good with my heat problem. Installed the heat shields and hi temp brake fluid. And keep the fans running when stuck in traffic on a hot day.

I took the car on a mountain run in 85 degree temps and then let it sit and cook. Shifting was much better than previous.

No need to replace my master cylinder, as my clutch is releasing just fine hot or cold now.

I do think that running the fan when stopped in traffic helps keep things tolerable under the hood. Seems to help my situation.

Good luck with yours.

[bobinyelm]

Thanks, that's good news. I will install one of the insulation pads on top of my heat shields (the shields themselves radiate tremendous heat upward making both master cylinders extremely hot), and switch to the Hit Temp fluid and give it a go.

The heat here no doubt contributes (It read 104 deg on the highway yesterday in Ft Worth)

Bob

[JayBar]

I have replaced no less than 7 slave cylinders. One push type and 6 pullers. The only good thing I can say is I found a cheep source for them
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Produc...inder&deptId=0

That said, Jim is correct about changing the fluid on a 6 month basis, that helps greatly.
But most of my failures had do to the design of the puller type cylinder. My
Wilwoods would come apart. The piston would unscrew form the rod, and no loctite would not hold in the brake fluid enviorment. I have seen threads where people have drilled the piston and pined the rod to it, I guess that would work. I am now thinking of biting the bullet and pulling the trans and installing a throwout bearing type unit. I never trusted that type of unit and felt they were trouble. Well I bought a 00 Corvette with 80,000 miles and it has that type of slave. I put 10k miles on it with many many open track events and when it was pulled (to replace the engine) the unit was in good condition. Almost good enough to install in my BDR with some clean up, and assuming it will fit. My car is an early model #78, so the trans tunnel is narrow which will preclude installing a pusher like Bill Littleton offers. But in the mean time I will buy another backup from Speedway motors it's the biggest bang for the buck. BTW I have installed heat shields on both the Brake and Clutch cylinders and rerouted the line up and over the foot box. I had a hard rubber hydraulic line made at NAPA then covered it with a reflective tube. I think I have that part of the heat thing beat, now it is just the mechanics of the actual cylinder.
Backdraft offers a slave cylinder bracket on their site says it is for a TKO which I have has anyone used this??

[bobinyelm]

I just came back from visiting a good friend in WA and while there we replaced the THIRD slave in 5000mi on his Backdraft.

The pushrod is perfectly in alignment w/ the cylinder, so it's not asymmetric forces causing the early demise.

O'Reilys had one on the shelf (Mazda pick-up) for under $12. Probably not the best quality, but it got him back on the road FAST.

BTW, this car has had a BIG heat-shield installed under the hydraulic components from day one.

Bob

[C-man610]

Maybe late but...
I had similar problems several years ago; replaced the MC with the Wilwood .750" bore # 260-1304 and the slave cylinder from CNC; series 305 push type

All has been find

[snakebittexan]

I have BDR #198 and went through three slave cylenders in a very short period, that was a year ago. Installed a heat shield with the last one, so far so good.

[bobinyelm]

I just bought 16oz bottle of Wilwood 600 degree fluid and will try it. Since I started running my engine fan regardless of engine temperature whenever stopped, I haven't had a clutch heat issue even w/ 100+ degree temps here. Of course, I've only driven it a few times (still working the bugs out before state inspection so it isn't legally licensed).

We ought to wire a fan relay to a neutral switch on the transmission!

Bob

[GLS-BDR226]

Originally Posted by C-man610

Maybe late but...
I had similar problems several years ago; replaced the MC with the Wilwood .750" bore # 260-1304 and the slave cylinder from CNC; series 305 push type

All has been find

Is the 305 a bolt in replacement for the original slave cylinder on a T5 bell housing and mounting bracket?

Thanks.

[Hitch]

Very interesting thread. The fluid I just bled from mine was nasty even though I know it was bled last year and few miles put on it since. Another follow up question has anyone experienced with the pusher style slaves and early cars is there a problem getting a good air gap on the throw out bearing and good clutch disengagement?? Thanks.

Dave

[cbreez]

I switched to dot 5 silicone fluid 2 years ago...no further problems...yet.

[tamanaco]

I have bdr#260 built by speed fanitix. bought it used 4 plus years ago and three days after delivery...no clutch pedal (big puddle on the floor, called Reg, he sent a new one to me free of charge! and I bought the car used. Thanks Reg!!!), been dealing with this issue ever since, not the puddle on the floor, but a clutch pedal that feels good and consistent in operation.
I have used the "as supplied" mazda B2200 unit, honed it, re-built it, installed new ones. installed High temp brake fluid (500F), read all the forum threads I could find, insulated lines, measure temperatures, btw could never even come close to 500 degrees around the clutch stuff...still nothing working! two issue for me was the bleeder on the bottom (can not bleed properly with out removing), not working consistently and consistently having to work on it!
Found a mazda b2600 slave, mount ear location further back, bleeder on the top, and it has an "o"ring seal on the piston in addition to the "V" seal. Installed this…clutch pedal has never felt this good and consistent in operation from hot to cold…it is the same. And it has lasted 3 plus months with no issues…a first! And you can bleed the system from under the hood…yeaha! btw, the "O"ring/"V"ring piston assembly will fit in the b2200 housing, just don't get the advantage of the bleeder on the top.
My conclusion on this clutch situation is...air was entering the system at the slave...how? don't know...but it solved the problem.