Newbie with Backdraft Interest

[Ace23]

Hey guys I'm brand new to the forum. Ended up meeting a group of guys a few weeks ago that are mostly Superformance owners with the exception of a few FFR cars. Had the pleasure of riding in one of the Superformance cars with a KC427 and obviously I caught the bug. I've made my mind up I absolutely have to buy one of these things but I do not want to make an impulsive decision. Currently I have a 03 Mustang Cobra coupe making 595RWHP and I just sold my turbo charged hayabusa that made over 600RWHP. I am 29.....a youngster by Cobra standards but I have been looking a them on an off for a year or so I just never had the chance to see any in person. I still have not had a chance to see a Backdraft car but it seems to be a very legitimate roller option and the Vintage Motorsports videos on youtube have given me a perspective of both carbureted and modular motor applications. Below is just an initial take on the only 3 companies I have looked at and what my initial thoughts have been. I would never track the car it would be used as a 100% street car.....look forward to any input and discussion related to what I'm getting myself into

FFR-great price and probably hands down the way to go if you want to build your own car. I do not have the facility or the time to go this route. I'm not sure what purchasing a FFR package and hiring a certified FFR builder would achieve compared to purchasing a Backdraft

Superformance- so far the only car I have ridden in. Very tight ride with no rattles, left with a feeling of very high quality and fit/finish. Very expensive.....I would be buying a used Superformance as I do not think a new one is a smart financial decision at this point in life.

Backdraft- The only negative comments have come from Superformance owners and it was related to the extra 2" of wheelbase or what was described as the "European" look as well as the fitment not being as exact as expected with a roller....I do keep in mind this is coming from owners of a competitive kit. I have not seen a Backdraft yet but I like the idea of having a 2inch longer wheelbase and more interior room as one would think it may be a bit more stable or have a slightly better ride.......I am not a huge guy but I'm 5'10 225lb. The price point on a used Backdraft has been very appealing as long as I was comfortable in that I was not making sacrifices.

[Ace23]

I might add while I love old school muscle cars and the thought of having a classic carbureted 427 with side pipes.....the Ford mod motor route with a T56 is very tempting considering the improved fuel economy, fuel injection & supercharger applications. The mod motor route looks really expensive at this point and not like many are on the market as used. I would say that I'm looking to be able to drive this car a good bit and I enjoy my power but I don't want to be working on motors and wearing out camshafts due to having an improper application for the vehicle

[itstock]

I'm a previous 03 cobra (663rwhp nitrous car pre ported blower) owner who is 29 as well, hopefully soon to be an owner again.

Honestly, I have never heard your listed negative worded like that as one of the Backdraft negatives. It is more so worded simply as the Backdraft not being quite as close of an exact replica as some others (such as Superformance). My view on this is pretty simple;

The only car that is a close comparison to the Backdraft is the Superformance. With the Superformance, you pay about 20% more for a "better closer to near show quality paint job". The body work and paint on the Superformance IS a bit better than the Backdrafts "near" show quality paint job. So for an extra $10-15k with the Superformance, you get a better paint job (there are also a couple options added in a base Superformance, so lets just say that the Superformance, option to option, is about $10k more for that paint job). You also get a much more accurate replica.

What you don't get is quite as good handling characteristics. The Backdraft, while not quite as accurate of a replica, is the better "performing" car.

As far as rattles/tightness/quality/problems, the Superformance and Backdraft are extremely close. I don't think anyone could be honest with themselves and claim that one is assembled at a higher quality than the other.

The Backdraft wins on performance and price. The Superformance wins on paint/body work quality and original accuracy.

Engine choice is a personal choice. I am of the opinion that IF resale is important, don't consider the Coyote. The overall price might not be effected, but you will limit the buyers market. My little carbed dart block 351w 427/TKO-600 is a nice streetable engine with 480rwhp. I would need the supercharged coyote or a coyote with lots of head/internal work to get that, and the price would be a bit more expensive, though not by much. For a reliable fuel injected engine, the Coyote is extremely tempting in regards to cost. It is NOT a substantially more expensive engine setup.

[peters44]

Ace 23 I purchased my new Backdraft in 2007 from Vintage motor sports. Jay and Brian are top shelf and are there for you long after the sale. I put 9,000 +/- miles on it before selling it last fall to a gentlemen in your neck of the wood (TN). The new owner has put many trouble free miles on it and couldn't be happier. Car is as tight as the day I bought it with no rattles.
If you want PM me your number I can get you in touch with the new owner and tell you more about Vintage.
Best of luck.
Peter

[Slick61]

Speaking from personal experience, look at them all before making a decision. Each make has their own unique qualities which you may find desirable/undesirable. After I looked at, and rode in several, I zeroed in very quickly on what exactly I wanted. I didn't expect to drive one, though a few offered. It's surprising what you can pick up from the passenger seat. Then it was just a matter of finding it. Don't expect to find everything you want in a particular car... you'll likely have to make a concession or two (color, engine, trans, suspension, wheels, price, etc.), unless you're going with a new build.

For me, the Backdraft was perfect. I liked the look and the details, I loved the roomier cockpit, the ride & handling were very nice, and the price point was within my targeted budget. Just take your time, do your research, and make an informed decision... then enjoy!

[RedEye]

Hey don't let age hold you back. I started building mine when I was 28, and first drove it right before my 29th birthday. Nothing better than having someone ask if it's my dad's car at a stoplight.... (but I do let dad drive it every now and then...haha)

[vref120]

Hi Ace:
Welcome to the forum. If it's any consolation, I'm a newbie to this as well, but after months of reading and watching youtubes (admit it), I found the most helpful insight was actually talking to people that have the cars your interested in. At first I considered a FFR. Nice car and has a large following but was concerned about my mechanical abilities. I talked to a few that have SP's, and again, a pretty loyal fan base. I was pretty sure I was going to go the SP route, but that all changed when I saw the BDR. People mention the 92" on the BDR, but I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'm not skilled enough to look at the SP and BDR paint jobs and tell a difference. Both cars I saw were gorgeous. However, I did really like the extra room in the BDR and the ride better than the SP. I decided on the BDR after first, considering I don't have the ability to make a FFR look that nice personally and the FFR just rode diffrent than the SP and BDR, second I was not concerned with the 90" rule on the SP and lastly, the BDR was more in my price range. If I put the options on the BDR that are standard on the SP, it's almost a wash price range. Some options can wait and add them later if you want em. I never considered the 5.0 coyote.
A friend got me in contact with Radical Roadsters in Texas and James Yale has been very upfront and to the point in what I thought I wanted, versus what I actually bought regarding both the car and engine and what I wanted the car for. I probably would have made some pretty dumb mistakes by now if I hadn't talked to actual car owners that have the actual car's and James. I can't stress that enough.
Currently still waiting for my BDR #1344 to show up to Radical Roadsters (on a boat somewhere)so we can get the KeithCraft 408 and the TKO 600 in it and off to me here in Oklahoma. Hang in there and don't rush into anything. Talk to as many people as you can. I have been doing that and have met some really awesome people in the process.
Keep us posted.

[Cashburn]

Are you looking to go faster than a 600HP bike? That's a handful.

On the high power end the boosted Coyote is a knockout package. But it you want the old school rumble and shake than a heavily built 427 SBF can scratch the itch.

I do have 3 consignments posting in the next 2 weeks. Maybe I have something in your budget range if you are planning to go used. Give me an email or call and I can give you details on what I have coming in. My consignments over the last 6 months have all sold before I could even get them listed.

I think you are on the right track and asking owners is even better. If you would like some contacts to speak to owners I am happy to provide those. Building a car now for Chattanooga that should get some tongues wagging...

[emissary]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Are you looking to go faster than a 600HP bike? That's a handful.

On the high power end the boosted Coyote is a knockout package. But it you want the old school rumble and shake than a heavily built 427 SBF can scratch the itch.

I do have 3 consignments posting in the next 2 weeks. Maybe I have something in your budget range if you are planning to go used. Give me an email or call and I can give you details on what I have coming in. My consignments over the last 6 months have all sold before I could even get them listed.

I think you are on the right track and asking owners is even better. If you would like some contacts to speak to owners I am happy to provide those. Building a car now for Chattanooga that should get some tongues wagging...

I tried PM-ing you, but was told your inbox was full. Could you please PM me more details about your three incoming Backdraft consignments? Thanks!

[DJPlaster58]

I looked at both and what sold me on a Backdraft over the SP was the handling and performance. If you want something that duplicates the original and has better fit and finish then go with SP. The true tipping point for me was the difference in dealers for each product. The SP dealer had no show room and was storing the cars in an unheated barn. I ask him to arrange for a ride in one and he didn't get back to me for two months by that time I bought my BDR from Vintage. Brian and Jay are great to deal with and very responsive when and if issues come up. In my opinion the guys to go to for a BDR know the car inside and out with great customer service.
As far as power goes I have an old school carbs/solid lifter 427W 600 hp at flywheel and it is more than enough. The car handles the power very well and is very predictable under power. If I had to do it over again I would probably go with Coyote engine which still is plenty of power but more drivable in traffic in the area I live in. Good luck in your quest.

[henrik]

Welcome to the madness

I have been riding quite a few different cobras by now, but my Backdraft is still the one I would choose again - Superformance as no 2

(a Kirkham in raw alu would fit nicely in the living room )

The BMW M3 brakes/suspension on the BDR is for me a clear winner - just don't put slicks on the rear.

I have the Roush 427... would consider the coyote with turbo/blower for weight and handling alt. the Keith Craft 482 Shelby for look, sound and... well sound

Give Jay a call - don't just PM if you are serious - only thing I regret is that I did not bought one earlier

Take care...

[Igotta P]

[quote=henrik;1295205]Welcome to the madness

The BMW M3 brakes/suspension on the BDR is for me a clear winner - just don't put slicks on the rear.

Henrik: I own, but have yet to install a pair of Nitto drag radials on my 602FWHP BDR. Can you tell us more about your experience with slicks?

[henrik]

[quote=Igotta P;1295207]

Originally Posted by henrik

Welcome to the madness

The BMW M3 brakes/suspension on the BDR is for me a clear winner - just don't put slicks on the rear.

Henrik: I own, but have yet to install a pair of Nitto drag radials on my 602FWHP BDR. Can you tell us more about your experience with slicks?

Reason I warn against slicks on the BDR is the rear axle - it is not build to +700 Nm and the torque of a very stong engine will destroy it

I have seen the damage on a hard driven BDR rear axle running slicks AND drag radials

that said - under normal acceleration tires will spin hence the axle will not be harmed

I drove 315 /17/35 Goodyear F1 (for the looks) last year - changing to Nitto drag radials this year - but I only drive on public roads and do not put max pressure on the car (my driving licence and I want to survive the summer )

PS: make sure to check bolts and nuts on your (rear) suspension / axel during the season... that will tell you if you drive too hard.

Be carefull...

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by itstock

I'm a previous 03 cobra (663rwhp nitrous car pre ported blower) owner who is 29 as well, hopefully soon to be an owner again.

Honestly, I have never heard your listed negative worded like that as one of the Backdraft negatives. It is more so worded simply as the Backdraft not being quite as close of an exact replica as some others (such as Superformance). My view on this is pretty simple;

The only car that is a close comparison to the Backdraft is the Superformance. With the Superformance, you pay about 20% more for a "better closer to near show quality paint job". The body work and paint on the Superformance IS a bit better than the Backdrafts "near" show quality paint job. So for an extra $10-15k with the Superformance, you get a better paint job (there are also a couple options added in a base Superformance, so lets just say that the Superformance, option to option, is about $10k more for that paint job). You also get a much more accurate replica.

What you don't get is quite as good handling characteristics. The Backdraft, while not quite as accurate of a replica, is the better "performing" car.

As far as rattles/tightness/quality/problems, the Superformance and Backdraft are extremely close. I don't think anyone could be honest with themselves and claim that one is assembled at a higher quality than the other.

The Backdraft wins on performance and price. The Superformance wins on paint/body work quality and original accuracy.

Engine choice is a personal choice. I am of the opinion that IF resale is important, don't consider the Coyote. The overall price might not be effected, but you will limit the buyers market. My little carbed dart block 351w 427/TKO-600 is a nice streetable engine with 480rwhp. I would need the supercharged coyote or a coyote with lots of head/internal work to get that, and the price would be a bit more expensive, though not by much. For a reliable fuel injected engine, the Coyote is extremely tempting in regards to cost. It is NOT a substantially more expensive engine setup.

Thanks for the opinion. I believe one I get to overlook or see a BDR up close I could make a decision about how I felt about the overall look and quality. What you have mentioned about the differences is about what I have been hearing on forums. The BDR seems more in line with my budget.

Originally Posted by Slick61

Speaking from personal experience, look at them all before making a decision. Each make has their own unique qualities which you may find desirable/undesirable. After I looked at, and rode in several, I zeroed in very quickly on what exactly I wanted. I didn't expect to drive one, though a few offered. It's surprising what you can pick up from the passenger seat. Then it was just a matter of finding it. Don't expect to find everything you want in a particular car... you'll likely have to make a concession or two (color, engine, trans, suspension, wheels, price, etc.), unless you're going with a new build.

For me, the Backdraft was perfect. I liked the look and the details, I loved the roomier cockpit, the ride & handling were very nice, and the price point was within my targeted budget. Just take your time, do your research, and make an informed decision... then enjoy!

Without having the opportunity to view one yet the larger cockpit and wheelbase appeal to me. It may be a different story once I actually see one but I will not know until then. I would more than likely be purchasing a used BDR and I do agree you have to find the closest car to what you are looking for and start there

Originally Posted by vref120

Hi Ace:
Welcome to the forum. If it's any consolation, I'm a newbie to this as well, but after months of reading and watching youtubes (admit it), I found the most helpful insight was actually talking to people that have the cars your interested in. At first I considered a FFR. Nice car and has a large following but was concerned about my mechanical abilities. I talked to a few that have SP's, and again, a pretty loyal fan base. I was pretty sure I was going to go the SP route, but that all changed when I saw the BDR. People mention the 92" on the BDR, but I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'm not skilled enough to look at the SP and BDR paint jobs and tell a difference. Both cars I saw were gorgeous. However, I did really like the extra room in the BDR and the ride better than the SP. I decided on the BDR after first, considering I don't have the ability to make a FFR look that nice personally and the FFR just rode diffrent than the SP and BDR, second I was not concerned with the 90" rule on the SP and lastly, the BDR was more in my price range. If I put the options on the BDR that are standard on the SP, it's almost a wash price range. Some options can wait and add them later if you want em. I never considered the 5.0 coyote.
A friend got me in contact with Radical Roadsters in Texas and James Yale has been very upfront and to the point in what I thought I wanted, versus what I actually bought regarding both the car and engine and what I wanted the car for. I probably would have made some pretty dumb mistakes by now if I hadn't talked to actual car owners that have the actual car's and James. I can't stress that enough.
Currently still waiting for my BDR #1344 to show up to Radical Roadsters (on a boat somewhere)so we can get the KeithCraft 408 and the TKO 600 in it and off to me here in Oklahoma. Hang in there and don't rush into anything. Talk to as many people as you can. I have been doing that and have met some really awesome people in the process.
Keep us posted.

We sound like we are in the same boat. I am not going to entertain the thought of doing a build myself. I'm just looking for a reliable fun Cobra. The quality and cleanliness of a car is my top priority but I can't tell the difference in a 6K paint job and a 10K paint job. The Superformance I rode in was a 427KC with a TKO600. Once it got into 3rd and could actually hook it moved out pretty well. Congratulations on your order!

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Are you looking to go faster than a 600HP bike? That's a handful.

On the high power end the boosted Coyote is a knockout package. But it you want the old school rumble and shake than a heavily built 427 SBF can scratch the itch.

I do have 3 consignments posting in the next 2 weeks. Maybe I have something in your budget range if you are planning to go used. Give me an email or call and I can give you details on what I have coming in. My consignments over the last 6 months have all sold before I could even get them listed.

I think you are on the right track and asking owners is even better. If you would like some contacts to speak to owners I am happy to provide those. Building a car now for Chattanooga that should get some tongues wagging...

Thanks for the note. It appears you guys have a very reputable shop from what I have been reading. I think trying to match my 600HP bike would be about impossible and a death sentence in a car like this. That bike trapped 174mph in the quarter mile on pump gas. A coyote setup with a supercharger seems almost ideal in a car of this type. I can only imagine the gas mileage is awesome as well as the way it runs and drivers. Initially I am pretty conflicted of whether you would go mod motor or SBF 427. The classic V8, side pipes, cam and all that comes with it just feels natural in this car. The other side to it is the Mod motor can have cams or be tuned to sound like they have cams.....probably a longer life motor that handles more abuse. Easier to increase power ect. Overall I am looking for something rather fast and that I can go put a lot of miles on without working on it or refreshing the motor every 20K miles. Although I keep my toys in showroom condition I am not looking for a garage queen.....I want to enjoy it. I'm going to work on finding a BDR cobra to look at so I can see what I think of the car....I'm sure I will be impressed.

Originally Posted by DJPlaster58

I looked at both and what sold me on a Backdraft over the SP was the handling and performance. If you want something that duplicates the original and has better fit and finish then go with SP. The true tipping point for me was the difference in dealers for each product. The SP dealer had no show room and was storing the cars in an unheated barn. I ask him to arrange for a ride in one and he didn't get back to me for two months by that time I bought my BDR from Vintage. Brian and Jay are great to deal with and very responsive when and if issues come up. In my opinion the guys to go to for a BDR know the car inside and out with great customer service.
As far as power goes I have an old school carbs/solid lifter 427W 600 hp at flywheel and it is more than enough. The car handles the power very well and is very predictable under power. If I had to do it over again I would probably go with Coyote engine which still is plenty of power but more drivable in traffic in the area I live in. Good luck in your quest.

As the old saying goes you get what you pay for. I know there has to be some differences due to the near 20K pricing difference in the rollers but I don't think that 20K is reflected in a negative way. The Superformance as you mentioned may have slightly better paint & I know the brand name carries well with seemingly low depreciation. That's interesting what you say about the Coyote.....it is hard to find a 427 guy say he would take a coyote. It is not as nostalgic but the coyote or even 4V cobra mod motor just seems a logical choice to get 500+hp out of something you want to really be out reliably driving a good bit

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by henrik

Welcome to the madness

I have been riding quite a few different cobras by now, but my Backdraft is still the one I would choose again - Superformance as no 2

(a Kirkham in raw alu would fit nicely in the living room )

The BMW M3 brakes/suspension on the BDR is for me a clear winner - just don't put slicks on the rear.

I have the Roush 427... would consider the coyote with turbo/blower for weight and handling alt. the Keith Craft 482 Shelby for look, sound and... well sound

Give Jay a call - don't just PM if you are serious - only thing I regret is that I did not bought one earlier

Take care...

I see you have a T-56. Is this something that you only find in BDR cars and maybe why the cockpit console seems to be larger than other cars? Quite honestly I like the idea of a T-56 from the durability aspect. It seems as the TK600 is very popular in these cars but I cannot speak to what is the preferred tranny due to all the gearing, weight ect... factors that play into a selection. My 03 cobra has a T-56 in it and besides being notchy its great. My car would be purely cruiser....no tracks, no burnouts. I like to enjoy the performance aspect but drag racing, launching a doing burnouts doesn't do much for me. I prefer roll-ons and acceleration. My driving style makes me feel a bit better considering the BDR rear end and components don't seem to be designed around high TQ and HP but that may be an inaccurate statement considering there are plenty of 427's in them.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by emissary

I tried PM-ing you, but was told your inbox was full. Could you please PM me more details about your three incoming Backdraft consignments? Thanks!

Yeah it's plugged up. Just send me an email. jay AT vintagemotorsports DOT com

[Igotta P]

Thanks Henrik. I appreciate the clarification and advice. Also enjoy your avatar.

[Ace23]

My initial feeling is that I would start out looking for a 427 car assuming I like the BDR once I have the opportunity to see one. I really like the idea of the mod motor but I'm more of a fan of the 03-04 4.6 4V Mod motors over the coyote setup. I think it may be important to "dip" my toe in the water making sure one of these cars is what I want. I've been told 10mpg is what to expect of a carb 427.....are the FI 427 really worth the extra expense even in the used market?

[henrik]

Originally Posted by Ace23

My initial feeling is that I would start out looking for a 427 car assuming I like the BDR once I have the opportunity to see one. I really like the idea of the mod motor but I'm more of a fan of the 03-04 4.6 4V Mod motors over the coyote setup. I think it may be important to "dip" my toe in the water making sure one of these cars is what I want. I've been told 10mpg is what to expect of a carb 427.....are the FI 427 really worth the extra expense even in the used market?

Ace... Find a BDR with the looks / price you like before the summer

Forget the engine for now - none of the BDR's will be "under powered". Drive it, and if you after summer still love the cobra... then you can think about wht engine / specs you want on you next cobra

as Nike say: Just do it!

You will not know what engine is for you just by reading!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by henrik

Ace... Find a BDR with the looks / price you like before the summer

Forget the engine for now - none of the BDR's will be "under powered". Drive it, and if you after summer still love the cobra... then you can think about wht engine / specs you want on you next cobra

as Nike say: Just do it!

You will not know what engine is for you just by reading!

Henrik,
Thanks for the input. I noticed you have a T56 tranny and FI. Can you elaborate on the FI being worth the money vs a carb setup......also I notice most transmissions being the TKO500 or 600. Have you gone with a T56 for the power levels you are working with or what led you to use a T-56