Coyote Alternator

[bobcowan]

The engine and transmission are prepped and just about ready to drop in. I'v been doing some measuring. It doesn't look like the alternator will fit! It looks like it's going to be about 1.5" too wide.

How did you solve this issue?

DUI advertises a mini 80 amp alternator. Has anyone tried this one?

I don't want to notch the frame. But I can if I have to.

[spdbrake]

I took a look that Backdraftparts site and they sell the Boss 302 alternator (higher rpm/increased tension) but not a relocation kit or bracket.
Backdraft Parts - MUSTANG BOSS 302 ALTERNATOR KIT
Granted its an assumption that all is well and it will fit...

[bobcowan]

Yeah, I looked at that. But the Boss alternator doesn't seem to be any smaller than stock, and might actually be a bit bigger. And uses the same brackets.

[spdbrake]

Looking at 1Swtride's Mayhem posts I see Jay's folks flipped the alternator 180 to face the engine.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...psjvfotsph.jpg

[eschaider]

Both the OEM (and aftermarket) EFI systems are sensitive to electrical supply capacity / quality, Bob. Ford used a stock alternator with a little over a 100 amp capacity with the OEM fuel pumps and other onboard electrical consumers originally for my engine.

By the time I added up my power budget for my fuel pumps, my electric water pump, my electric fan, the KB Boost-a-Spark, my Vampire detonation detection and correction hardware yada, yada I needed a minimum 200 amp alternator and a 900 CCA battery. I ended up using a custom made 240 amp alternator in a an OEM Ford Gen 6 small case format. It is the smallest case alternator Ford makes. The guys who built mine have all the different Gen 6 case styles so fitment should be easy.

The guys who built the alternator are Mechman, (<=clickable), there are other good custom alternator shops out there also. When I bought mine they were offering a ten year warranty. Today it is less.

Mechman uses a high pole count, six phase stator with dual internal cooling fans and a welded twin internal rectifier design. Lots of words. Bottom line is that it puts out over 200 Amps at idle, has a 22,000 rpm upper speed limit and is the most robust alternator I have ever had — by a country mile.

Just like the engine wants ignition reserve to fire at elevated engine speeds the ECU wants electrical system power reserve to operate the engine at mid range and higher engine speeds. A marginal supply of power usually results in miscalculations of the engine fueling requirements — which in a blown gas engine usually comes with a price tag for burnt pistons.

The guys at Mechman are easy to talk to and will literally build custom just for your application. Almost forgot they can build this things as a self exciting single wire alternator which makes swaps like we do very easy.


Ed

[bobcowan]

Cool! That's the kind of info I was looking for. I'll get in touch with them and see what I can find out.

Did yours bolt in without modifying the brackets? Do you have any pics?

[eschaider]

No it did not.

Almost everything on this engine selection was a custom made, custom fit scenario. That 's not to suggest that putting any other engine is is necessarily easier. They all work you, some more than others. Another issue to keep in mind is that Modmotors and Coyotes have similar DNA but externally (and internally) sometimes have significant differences.

When I did my engine design, the OEM alt position on the supercharged 03/04 Cobra engine interfered with my steering column and something else I have forgotten over the years. One alternative was to use GT500 style mounts and leave it on the blower drive sheave or go to a modified mount and place it on the a/c drive sheave.

At the time there was a company in Las Vegas called Sullivan Performance Products. They made a nice alternator bracket that relocated the alternator just under the front of the driver side head and put it on the back drive sheave with the a/c, leaving the blower to have the front HD drive sheave all to itself.

This is what the GT500 alternator positioning looks like with a set of aftermarket billet replacement mounts;



Here is a picture of the GT500 engine driver side front with the alternator in essentially the same location but with OEM mounts;



This is the Sullivan relocation kit mocked up on a 4.6L engine.



After having spent literally months searching out aftermarket kits trying to resolve my own relocation problems I am of the opinion today that the best way home is to decide where you want the alternator to be and build your own brackets to position it there.

BTW as nice as the Sullivan bracket looks it positions the alternator uncomfortably close to the #5 exhaust header tube and requires a sheet metal heat shield to be fabricated to protect the alternator diodes from being cooked.

Because your engine is a Coyote, it is not likely that any of these alternatives will work for you — which brings us back to the build it yourself solution which in hindsight may well be the best solution.


Ed

[bobcowan]

I just heard back from Mechman. Everything they make is actually bigger than than stock. So not helpful here.

The DUI part is a single wire only. So the ECU can't control the output. I don't that's a big deal here. But I expect that it will require a custom bracket. I'll ask them if I can use a standard serpentine belt, though.

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

I just heard back from Mechman. Everything they make is actually bigger than than stock. So not helpful here.

The DUI part is a single wire only. So the ECU can't control the output. I don't that's a big deal here. But I expect that it will require a custom bracket. I'll ask them if I can use a standard serpentine belt, though.

Bob,

Mechman only uses stock cases, admittedly aftermarket versions but dimensionally stock. The only way they could make a 'larger' alternator is they sent you a Gen 3 case unit for a Gen 6 case application. If you order the same generation alt case as OEM (In your case Gen 6) then it will not only be the same size it will bolt up where the OEM alt did.

Somebody is misleading you.


Ed

[bobcowan]

Well, this is the note they sent me: "No, I’m sorry I can’t help with that one the stock unit is a small case and the replacement units we build area actually large case so what I make would take you in the wrong direction. I believe you will end up having to notch the frame. "

I'll contact DUI and see what they say. I'll let you know.

[eschaider]

Apologies for putting you through that experience, Bob. As the quip goes that was then this is now. Today they obviously do not want your business so I would do the same thing you already are and find another provider. Sad, because the old customer experience was actually supportive and quite good.


Ed

[bobcowan]

Hey, no big deal, and thanx for you help. I'm willing to follow every lead.

[cycleguy55]

March has a kit that may be worth looking at. March Performance - Ford 5.0L Late Model Coyote Kit

[spdbrake]

I think this version of a flipped alternator is as innovative as what Jay's crew is installing.
How to put a alternator on a 5.0 coyote in your hot rod - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum


The FFR company does make a nice installation manual for the 5.0
http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...n-roadster.pdf