Adjustable suspension question

BDRCobra · #1 (**permalink**) 04-29-2005, 08:07 AM

When adjusting the front coil overs do you adjust each spring adjuster the same amount? The reason I ask is to maintain the same frame height from ground on each side I have to adjust the two coil overs differently. In other words on one side the spring is more compressed than on the other one. If I adjust them the same than the driver side sits quite a bit lower.

My second question is when looking at the vehicle the front tires lean in at the top. Not alot but noticable. Is this for performance reasons or will the alignment shop correct this.

I have the BDR alignment recommendation which I will give to the alignment shop.

Cashburn · #2 (**permalink**) 04-29-2005, 08:09 AM

Lean in at top is negative camber, you want that for performance driving. Not sure how much but an alignment shop can dial it in to factory settings for you.

Coilovers my need different settings to balance the weight. With just a driver in the car the weight shift is quite a bit as a percentage due to how light the car is to start.

tony martin · #3 (**permalink**) 04-29-2005, 09:25 AM

GUYS,

ALL E36 BMW RUN WITH NEG. CAMBER FRT. AND REAR. I AM NOT AT THE FACTORY SO I CANT SAY EXACTLY HOW MUCH. I WOULD TAKE A FLYER AND BE VERY HAPPY WITH 1/2 DEGERR NEG +- 1/4 DEGAREE VARIENCE.
I WILL CHECK AND SEND U THE FACTORY SPEC.

TAKE CARE,

BDRCobra · #4 (**permalink**) 04-29-2005, 10:07 AM

Thanks for the replies!! If it does not rain this afternoon I am taking it in. Just as a side note I found a couple areas of looseness in my steering which were a 3 minute fix. First was the connection from the steering box to steering shaft. The allen head screw was not completely tight. Turn your steering wheel for easy access to the head and tighten it. The second was where the steering shaft slides into the column. There are two little screws that hold it from turning. Those were also loose. I tightned them and now if you move my steering wheel a mm you will move the front tires.

oncebitten · #5 (**permalink**) 04-29-2005, 10:22 AM

Be aware to that the springs may not be tightened to stay in place on the retaining when the front wheels are jacked up off the ground. I found this out when a short drive produced a loud pop sound. When adjusting header to sidepipe springs saw that the spring on the strut was not seated in the top retainer when the strut is fully extended. So be weary of this when raising the car in the air. i suggest to tighten the spring up to the retaining ring at the top if not raising the ride height to much in the frontend. I found this to be about an eigth of an inch on a new car.

BDRCobra · #6 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 01:15 PM

I finally got to the alignment shop. The tech told me the camber was not adjustable. Currently I am at -1.5 degrees. Does anyone know if the camber is adjustable. I looked my self and did not see any adjusments. If anyone knows how to adjust the camber I would greatly appreciate any instruction. Thanks Again

Nor Cal Al · #7 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 04:15 PM

Relative to the height adjusters, my dealer said to use a 1 inch block on top of the tire and adjust the height so the block just fits between the top of tire and the top of the wheel well. You will have to take the tire off and on until you get it right. Don't forget to roll the car to level the tires after lowering back to the ground. Maybe even bounce it a few times It took severrel tries to get it right. You will probably have to do it again after the springs settle a bit. Also makes for a nice look.

Second, I got alignment specs in my manual but....I do not believe them. I seem to remember they were at or about Zero on camber.

Also, in talking to some BMW owners, BMW does their alignment with weight in the car to simulate the driver and ?passanger?. There is no mention of this in the manual. Can Tony please comment on this? Are the specs compensated for no extra people weight added?

DC COBRA · #8 (**permalink**) 05-06-2005, 07:53 PM

My BDR has about -2.5 degrees on camber, tires lean in pretty good at top, tried to get it fixed at alignment shop, but will have to take the struts loose at the top or possibly remove them to elongate the mounting holes a little to be able to adjust in to spec. I haven't had the time to do this, not really a major job. I have got over 1500 miles on the what I call (severe camber) but no problems what so ever. Kinda has that bad azz road racer car look.

Also raising the front ride height will take some negative camber out. Though some people likes the low look, like me, will have to deal with the negative camber issue till some adjustment slooting is done, to be able to get spec.

DON

tony martin · #9 (**permalink**) 05-07-2005, 03:24 AM

GUYS,

FIRSTLY MY SPEL.CHECK IS NOT WORKING!!!

HERE ARE THE RECOMENDED BMW WA SETTINGS.AND MY RECOMENDATIONS.

THESE ARE THE SETTINGS FOR A NORMAL 4 SEATER PASSENGER CAR AND NORMAL(NOT COBRA!!!)EVERYDAY DRIVERS.

WE HAVE EXPERIMENTED WITH VARIOUS SETTINGS AND FIND THESE A GOOD STARTING POINT.

AS WE ALL KNOW,COBRAS ARE NOT NORMAL 4 SEATER PASSENGER CARS AND THEIR OWNERS AND DEFINATLY NOT THE NORMAL STERO TYPE OF DRIVER FOR WHICH THESE SETTINGS WERE DERIVED.

THERE ARE MANY CHARACTERISTICS BIULT INTO THE BMW SUSPENSION WHICH ARE TOTALLY SUPERFICIAL TO THE WANTS AND NEEDS OF THE COBRA PERSON.

EG.

SHOULD A COBRA TIRE LAST 20,000 MILES OR 15,000 MILES? SHOULD THE CAR HANDLE BETTER?

NO CONTEST(FOR ME)?
IT SHOULD HANDLE BETTER?

THEREFORE IF ONE WANTED TO RUN WITH A TAD MORE CAMBER AND SACRIFICE A FEW MILES IN TIRE LIFE I AM SURE WE WOULD GO FOR THE HANDLING?

LIKEWISE WITH THE RIDE HIGHTS.MOST OF US WOULD GO FOR A LOWER CAR WITH VISUALLY MORE CAMBER AS IT LOOKS FAR BETTER? IT ALSO HANDLES BETTER AND DOES NOT APRECIABLY AFFECT THE TIRE WEAR.

MOSTOF OUR CARS ARE NORMALLY SET UP WITH MORE THAN SPEC. NEG. CAMBER IN THE FRT.WE RUN BETWEEN 1 DEGREE AND 2.5 DEGREE NEG.(SOMETIMES EVEN A BIT MORE)

SHOULD ONE WANT TO RUN THE CAR WITH SETTINGS CLOSER TO THE BMW SPEC. THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS TO DO THIS.

I MUST SAY THAT WE HAVE HAD THESE OPERTUNITIES AT THE FACTORY AND HAVE DECLINED TO CHANGE OUR SETTINGS AS BOTH FROM A HANDLING AND ASTHETIC POINT OF VIEW, WE FIND OURS TO BE THE MOST SUITABLE FOR OUR APLICATION.

DISCUSSIONS WITH OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE ALSO CONFIRMED THIS.

AS TO SETTING UP THE CAR WITH WEIGHT IN IT,YES THIS IS TECHNICALLY, MORE CORRECT.
DUE TO THE LARGE TOLERANCES IN SPEC.WE DO NOT FIND THIS TO BE CRITICAL.

TO SUM UP THIS IS HOW I WOULD SET UP MY CAR FOR ALL ROUND DRIVING.

REAR: AS CLOSE TO RECOMENDED SPEC.AS OBTAINABLE WITHOUT MODIFICATION.RUN AS MUCH CAMBER WITHIN THE SPEC. AS U CAN WHILE RETAINING TOE IN.

1 - 1.5MM TOE IN IS OK.

FRONT: CAMBER 1.5 - 2.5 DEGREES NEG.CAMBER. THE CASTER WILL THEREFORE BE DIFFERENT TO THE SPEC.MENTIONED BELOW.

**NOTE***IF U RUN THE FRT. OF YOUR CAR EXTREMLY LOW THIS NEG. CAMBER MIGHT INCREASE SLIGHTLY.I DONT HAVE A PLOBLEM WITH THIS.

BMW WHEEL ALIGNMENT SETTINGS

Front (specified ranges): Camber -1° 20' to -0° 40', Caster 6° 55' to 7° 55', Toe 1mm to 2.4mm, Turning Angle Difference -2.03° to -1.03°

Rear (specified ranges): Camber -2° 00' to -1° 30', Toe 1.7mm to 3.0mm

I HOPE THIS ANSWERS MOST OF YOUR QUESTIONS.SHOULD U NEED TO KNOW MORE PLEASE CONTACT MYSELF OR REG.

DRIVE SAFELY.

BDRCobra · #10 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 07:13 AM

Thanks Tony, could you please expand on how to accomplish the following "SHOULD ONE WANT TO RUN THE CAR WITH SETTINGS CLOSER TO THE BMW SPEC. THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS TO DO THIS." How exactly do you do this outside of slotting the holes in the upper struts. I found a company that sells adjustable camber plates for BMW I do not know if they would work on the Backdraft. If you do slot the holes is it likely the bolts will move on their own overtime?

Thanks for all the info.

tony martin · #11 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 09:07 AM

GUYS,

2 EASY WAYS TO ADJ. FRONT END CAMBER.

1. SLOT THE HOLES IN THE UPPER STRUTS.

THIS IS SIMPLE AND IF U USE GOOD QUALITY,LARGER OUTER DIAM. WASHERS(2-3MM THICK)AND TIGHTEN THEM PROPERLY THEY WILL NOT MOVE.

2. U CAN REPLACE THE BOLT WHICH HOLDS THE STEERING KNUCKLE TO THE STRUT WITH AN EXCENTRIC ONE.

TSW (TIGER WHEELS) SHOULD BE ABLE TO SUPPLY.
IF U CANNOT FIND THEM LET ME KNOW AND I WILL SOURCE THEM OUT HERE OR MAKE THEM FOR U.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND CHECK TIRE WEAR BEFORE U CHANGE ANYTHING,REMEMBER THINK TWICE AND CUT ONCE!!!

TAKE CARE,

tony martin · #12 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 09:17 AM

GUYS,

SORRY,I FORGOT TO MENTION ABOUT THE CAMBER/CASTER ADJ. PLATES.

THESE ARE ALSO A GOOD WAY TO GO.

WITH THE BACKDRAFT THE NORMAL AFTERMARKET PLATES ARE SIGHTLY TOO WIDE TO FIT IN BETWEEN OUR STRUT MOUNTS. IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE THE MODIFY A SET TO FIT.U WOULD NEED TO TRIM THE OUTER CIRCLE(AS WE HAVE DONE WITH OUR CURRENT TOP PLATES). IF U CRAWL UNDER YOUR CAR U WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN.

IF WE FIND THAT U CUSTOMERS WANT SOMETHING LIKE THIS AS AN ON GOING MOD. WE WILL DESIGN AND MAKE UP A FEW SETS.

THANKS,

BMK · #13 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 09:40 AM

Keep at it Tony..

Did you get the email from Australia?

Take care

bernie

BDRCobra · #14 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 01:10 PM

Thanks Tony!!!! I like the eccentric bolt idea. I will try to locate one. Once again thanks!!!

airvolts · #15 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 03:56 PM

Hello All,

Going to florida to pick out a new backdraft on wednesday, Dealer has a built 427 original side oiler with a 4 speed top loader trans already there, I'm getting that set up but have yet to pick color. I'm no engine expert to say the least just wanted that set up to stay some what to an orginal. Any thing I should know or ask when making this deal?

uncltodd · #16 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 05:10 PM

Tony, I am totally PO'd.

Calm me down.

Tomorrow I get to drive down 35 miles of BAD interstate with a chassis/ front end vibration that won't go away.

I'm set up for a wheel alignment tomorrow with a tech that has 26 years experience.

What do I tell him?

BDR #139... all I know is maybe it is BMW 325.

And it vibrates.

Yeah, I jumped a ditch and got her airborne.. just for a sec.

Sin Loi.

Tyres are cool, driveshaft, U-joints, motor and tranny mounts, all cool. All checked out deluxe.

What's left?

Wheel alignment.

Toe-in, camber, caster, what do I tell this guy?

It sucks when a BDR with 1800 miles on it does a one-inch steering wheel "hand dance" backing off from 50 MPH.

Gimme specs, please, I need them quickly!

I am a big Backdraft fan, but I am running on a short fuze.

Please help me.

UT

Cashburn · #17 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 06:42 PM

You jumped the thing and smashed it into a barbed wire fence. Was the vibration occuring prior to that little detour?

Trueoo7 · #18 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 09:12 PM

Tony
While we're on the subject of "adjustable suspension" have you shipped over any springs lately? I've been patiently waiting since December of 2004. All I hear is "they're in the next crate which is on its way" . One tire already has a small gouge in it.

uncltodd · #19 (**permalink**) 05-09-2005, 10:01 PM

Mein Gott, Cashburn, you sound like me.

That's scary.

No, the vibration started at about 1300 miles, but probably due to battle damage to the front end, looking back.

At 1800 miles now, intense wheel balance took vibes down 50 percent, alignment guy and I will wing it manana.

Shoulda bought a Mustang GT ragtop like College Girl has been whining for.

Nah.

UT

tony martin · #20 (**permalink**) 05-10-2005, 03:03 AM

UT,
IF U LOOK BACK IN THE THREAD U WILL FIND THE WA SPECS IN MY PREVIOUS POST.

THE SUSPENSION IS BMW E36.

HOWEVER I DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS WHERE YOUR PROBLEM IS.

U SAY THAT THIS VIABRATION ONLY ACCOURES ON DE ACELLERATION?
IF SO IT POINTS TO MOVEMENT SOMEWHERE WHEN U REVERSE THE ENGINE TORQUE.
U NEED TO GET A STRONG BAR AND SIMULATE THE MOVEMENT OF YOUR DRIVETRAIN DURING ACCELERATION AND DE ACCELERATION.THIS SHOULD SHOW IF SOMETHING IS RUBBING AND CAUSING THIS PROBLEM.

I AM GOING TO STICK MY NECK OUT(SO DONT SHOOT IT OFF PLEASE) AND SAY THAT I THINK THAT YOUR PROBLEM IS IN THE TIRES/WHEELS. ESPECIALLY IF U ARE RUNNING 15" TIRES?

WHEN U GET TO YOUR WA MAN PLEASE LET HIM CHECK THAT THE RIMS AND THE TIRES ARE RUNNING TRUE. THIS IS THE MOST COMON PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED. EVEN IF ONE MANAGES TO BALANCE THEM PERFECTLY U COULD STILL PICK UP A VIABRATION SIMILAR TO WHAT U ARE GETTING.IF THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM WE CAN THEN GO TO THE NEXT STEP.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW U PROGRESS.

007,
I SHOULD BE UP TO DATE WITH SPRINGS. CONTAINER DUE IN THIS WEEK. TALK TO REG. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF STILL A PROBLEM.

BERNIE,

YOU R NEXT ON THE LIST!!!

TAKE CARE BUDDIES,

REGARDS,