header / sidepipe leaks

rocket71 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 06:44 AM

So is anyone tired of the backfiring and leaking pipes?
I'm in the process with a fab shop fixing this problem for good.
Anyone interested let me know. We are cutting and flanging header and side pipes. I will have pictures when done.

tom

Tongue Pirate · #2 (**permalink**) 05-14-2005, 08:35 AM

Sounds interesting. Please post those pics when done. I think we are all interested in new ideas & products

BDRCobra · #3 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 07:44 AM

I took mine off and had a muffler shop hydraulically expand the headers. Two weeks later I had one pipe leaking. I found a tailpipe expander that you hammer into the header instead of tightening while in the header. It is currently working. If another one leaks (after the high temp silicone melts away) then I will flange. I am interested in the cost to have the flanges installed. I have no idea what shipping to and from NJ would cost though. I am sure I can find someone local. Please post pictures when complete.

I would have been well ahead if I would have welded flanges on from the get go. I am also considering brazing the connection but I could never get the header and side pipe to seperate afterwards. I used an infrared temp gun and the temp at the header to side pipe connection was 685F!!! with a 302. The high temp rtv is only good to 700F intermittantly.

CJ428CJ · #4 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 07:54 AM

I've tinkered with my slip fit connection 3 or 4 times. Last time I used a pipe expander to make the fit as tight as I reasonably could. I sealed the joints with some "exhaust sealer" that I picked up at a Napa store. I then wrapped the connector portion of the header/side pipes with exhaust wrap to hopefully keep the sealer from blowing out. It has held up well for about 500 miles now.

I've tried the high temp silicon before and it burned away in no time. I think your measurement of 685F might be in the ballpark at idle but I suspect the temperatures actually get much higher under heavy load conditions. If I do this again I might try one of the high temp sealers I found on this site: http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/index.htm

Chris

BDRCobra · #5 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 01:41 PM

CJ428CJ
I think you hit on something with the resbond 907GF. It is good to 2350F on a continuous basis. I found a websight that sells 4oz for $12.95. If a leaks occurs do to the high temp silicone degrading this may be worth a try.

Thanks

Excaliber · #6 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 02:43 PM

900 degrees idle temp, yeah, it's a BIG block!

CJ428CJ · #7 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 05:14 PM

BDRCobra,

Keep us posted if you do decide to try that stuff. I'd be interested to hear if it works.

Chris

BDRCobra · #8 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 08:00 AM

I will definelty post, I hope I do not need it. I have my slip fit pretty tight. I really have to work to get the sidepipe back on. I wish I would have known about the resbond when I put it together the last time. Even when I had the leak on the one pipe there was not much "force". I am 75% confident if the sealer does not melt away it would work.

Anyone that stumbles across this thread that has not expanded their pipes do yourself a favor and pay someone to flange the connection. The only reason I do not is because I think I have mine beat.

Cashburn · #9 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 10:41 AM

The problem with a flange is that you will not be able to get to some of the bolts to tighten them. This is why the flange system was dropped long ago in production.

BDRCobra is on the right path.

oncebitten · #10 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cashburn

The problem with a flange is that you will not be able to get to some of the bolts to tighten them. This is why the flange system was dropped long ago in production.

BDRCobra is on the right path.

Cashburn,
What do you mean can't get to the bolts to tighten them . I would think that would be reflected upon where the flange was created. Getting to the springs isn't an issue therefore getting to bolts on flanges doesn't appear that it would be an issue. All you need is a good floor jack. In fact BDRs should come with its own floor jack. Lord knows I have used it enough on my turnkey purchase. In fact a his and hers would be a good idea.

Cashburn · #11 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 09:07 AM

oncebitten,
You are correct. If you are doing the flanges as one offs you could probably put the flange in a spot where you can get to all 4 bolts. However in production where you do not know what powerplant the end user will install, and/or what set of holes on the mounts ... you cannot put the 4 bolts in position to satisfy everyone. Anything can be engineered for your specific car after the fact...

cobrak · #12 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cashburn

oncebitten,
You are correct. If you are doing the flanges as one offs you could probably put the flange in a spot where you can get to all 4 bolts. However in production where you do not know what powerplant the end user will install, and/or what set of holes on the mounts ... you cannot put the 4 bolts in position to satisfy everyone. Anything can be engineered for your specific car after the fact...

Cashburn;

So what are the other manufacturers of turnkey cars doing. Does Superformance have a slip joint?

Cobrak

dwdshelby · #13 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 11:26 AM

On my Superformance with a 427 S.O. the header to sidepipe flange is eight bolts in the transition box that is very convenient to get to. Compared to the CSX 4000 car I had with the slip mechanism and comparing overall pain in getting the headers and sidepipes together the Superformance seems to be better engineered/thought-out even for the big FE.

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 05-19-2005, 11:26 AM

The new BDR just delievered and arrived in Hawaii had two of the four retainer hooks welded to the slip joint area for the springs, broken. One spring had fallen off as a result and the other was missing.

Two bolts pers side for the slip joints on my ERA. The top bolt is virtually impossible to reach on one side. No easy solution to this problem I guess.

BDRCobra · #15 (**permalink**) 05-20-2005, 07:07 AM

The BDR slip joint has a design issue from the get go. Simply put the header pipes are not even remotely expanded to the right dimension. Mine were so bad, someone in a feable attempt put a tack on each pipe to prevent the pipes from rattling against each other not to mention the exhaust leak. Now that my slip fit is about "right" I understand dwdshelby comment about how difficult it is to get the header and side pipe together since they are not sloppy loose. I would bet the majority of BDR get with one of 3 engines 302, 351 or 427/8. Why not have 3 options and flange the connection.

There is no doubt BDR is by far the biggest bang for your buck yet they are still 35 -45 grand when complete, when talking this type of money flanged sidepipes should be offered as an option even if it would add cost.

I enjoy working on cars but to the guy who does not or bought a turnkey minus with the impression he would only perform routine maintenance the slip joint connection would be frustrating.

BUCKEYE COBRA · #16 (**permalink**) 05-20-2005, 07:58 PM

Wow,my earlier BDR has a plastic gaas tank,weak springs but does have exhuast flanges that don't leak. Yea!

jeffko · #17 (**permalink**) 05-25-2005, 05:45 AM

I just bought one pound of the Cotronics Durabond #7032. Their tech guy claimed it would easily do the job. He sounded half salesman, but we will soon find out.

BDRCobra · #18 (**permalink**) 05-25-2005, 06:23 AM

Jeffko, I recommend you get the fit as close as possible or the cotronics will blow out due to the back pressure. I am not familiar with the durabond. I would be hesitate to using an adhesive as opposed to a sealer. You will not get the pipes apart if it is an adhesive. Let us know how it goes.

Cashburn · #19 (**permalink**) 05-25-2005, 08:56 AM

I'm worried about the idea of using an adhesive for you too.

Something to try, though we have not yet done this is to weld pipe inside the sidepipes that is the same size as the header pipes. This will create an inner lip (obviously you have to weld this inner pipe at the point where the headers will be inserted to). Adding the lip will give the header something to seal against inside the pipe.

jeffko · #20 (**permalink**) 05-26-2005, 11:04 AM

My thought is that since everyone is having so much trouble with the damn things I would seal it tight the first time! To be honest with you guys I think the BDR heasders leave a great deal to be desired. One of my long term projects is to get some custom headers made and add a flanged connection. There is plenty of room for a sawsall when the time comes. I used header wrap to diguise the pipes for now. Am I making any sense?