Clutch Fluid Everywhere

[jeffko]

I have 2 problems with the hydraulic clutch. 1st and worst is I have fluid everywhere. I had checked all the connection prior to installing the engine because even back then my confidence in BDR was fading. Some were loose but most were not. I though that I had everything tight but I am still getting leakage somewhere. I have been taking short runs and by the time I get home there is fluid all over the engine compartment, smoking from the headers, dripping on the ground and all over my windshield. I have not put the hood on yet in case you are wondering how it got on the windshield. I have got to get this stopped before I miss a spot and it spots my paint. Any clues???

2nd problem is (related to the 1st?) I have my hydraulic slave at the clutch are installed with the bleed pointing down because that was the only way it would fit. Anybody got an answer for this one???

Reg, Tony...please chime in with any help you may have. London show is just 10 days away. I could take missing the event a lot easier if these were problems I created.

[tfarhood]

Jeffko,

Don't know where your leak is from, but if you need a new master cylinder, Summit sells them, Wilwood part number 260-1304. It is an exact swap out, no problems. Ask your wife, kid, or neighbor to sit in your car and depress the clutch and keep holding it down. You should be able to observe the system and spot the leak. I never keep my clutch depressed at red lights, I always put it in neutral while I wait. I don't think the small master cylinders for four and six cylinder engines were designed to handle the back pressure of a large V-8 clutch, and that constant pressure may be a reason for the seals to fail. I had to replace my master cylinder after 1 year and 5000 miles due to leaky seals.

As for the slave, I had the same bleeding issue. Do not go to Ford or Mazda for that part. Go to NAPA or Auto Zone or the likes and ask for a 1988 Mazda B2500 pick-up truck. Then ask if they have the mirror image of that one. I don't have the part number for the original slave, but the part number for the better slave is S1031 (the original Backdraft supplied one is only one number different, either S1030 or S1032). Anyway, my replacement is an aftermarket OEM spec slave from New Generation Clutch Systems. The bleed valve is at the top and it solves your bleeding problem. Good Luck.

[jeffko]

I have tried several times to find the leak without any luck. I think it is migrating from the master but still not sure. I do not use the clutch at lights either. I actually slip out of gear without the clutch as I roll up to a light.

I can't imagine BDR supplying 4-6 cylinder clutches knowing full well that we will be using competition type clutches and pressure plates. I have only been driving the car for 2 days so unless a seal was improperly installed it has to be a connection somewhere.

Thanks for the part numbers. If I am left to solve this problem they will be very handy. I actually think BDR should authorize me to take it to a shop for proper repair. I am calling him tomorrow to see what he may know. He has had a few ideas in the past that have been right on and I can't belive that you and I are the only ones. I will let you know what happens.

Jeff

[JayBar]

I don’t have any direct advice for you but would like to relay my hydraulic clutch problems. First of all my car has 6,000 miles on it.
A few months ago I took it to the engine builder to have it tuned on their dyno. I had changed carbs from a Edelborck 750 to a Holley 650. The car felt stronger but I wanted to know for sure, plus I wanted the mixture checked. BTW I went from 326hp to 335hp and torque from 305 to 350.

I had never had a problem with the clutch. That day on the trip home from the dyno run, after a 35 mile trip on the turnpike I went to pull off, but had no clutch pedal. I pumped it like crazey and some sort of pedal came back.

I went home jacked up the car and checked things out. My fluid level was down about ¾ of an inch. I went to bleed the slave and very dark and burnt fluid came out.

I think the dyno run over heated the master and or the line to the slave and cooked the fluid or possible the bushing or internal rubber parts. For the next hundred miles it kept going bad. The fluid would be black at the slave. I would suck out the fluid in the master, and empty the slave. I did this three times.

The solution was to replace the system. I ordered the Willwood cylinder from Summitt and the slave from NAPA. I had to pay $35.00 for a new slave; if they had a rebuilt model in stock I could have gotten it for $11.00. But when I replaced the parts I covered the line from the Master to Slave with a reflective insulated tube.

It’s been about 300 miles with some hard driving and an open track event, and all is well with the clutch.

[tfarhood]

Jeffko, don't get me wrong. I don't know the specs of the master cylinder and slave. It is just my way of thinking that tells me that if the seals failed, maybe there is too much pressure being applied.

[Cashburn]

We had a similar problem years ago and it turned out to be the cap leaking. The solution was to replace the cylinder.

[Nor Cal Al]

I went with a Wilwood slave that is a "pull" type instead of a "push". I have read many a thread here about bent actuator rods. It is available from Summit as well.

Also make sure you check tube connections. The flare on BMW (euro) tube ends is not the same flare we use here in the states.

[JayBar]

Nor Cal Al
I was looking at the Willwood slave cylinder. It appears to be a better quality that the Mazda unit we have. Is there a way to
mount the Willwood "puller type" slave with off the shelf parts.
There is no place on my bellhousing to mount it, but is there a mounting bracket available?

[flipper35]

My cap used to leak too. Though a different seal inthe cap solved my problem. Nothing like coming to a stop and having a plume of white smoke out the vent!

[niles]

I don't normal make comments to these type post; but after reading all these totally unhelpful poosts here goes.

Only you can trouble shot it yourself!!!! Don't blame BDR. The first time I powered my brakes I had about 6 leaks; just were'nt tight enough, and I did them all.
Don't drive it again unless you want to burn it up. After smoke comes fire.!!!

Jack it up; take a clean rag and clean off everything from MC to slave and all the lines in between. Get an assistant to operate the clutch repeatedly and you start at the MC with a good flashlight and mirror and you go over every connection, follow the line down every inch to the slave until you find out the source of the leak..This is'nt rocket science and you'll never be happy with your Cobra until you get to e mechanically competent. To jump at a guess of what leaking is folley to the extreme.

gn

[JayBar]

Niles,

The following quote from the first reply in this thread, which according to your post was “unhelpful,” sounds a great deal like your advice only more concise.


“Ask your wife, kid, or neighbor to sit in your car and depress the clutch and keep holding it down. You should be able to observe the system and spot the leak.”

[tfarhood]

JayBar, Thanks - you beat me to it ! I guess some posts are only unhelpful if you don't read them .

[got snake?]

Originally posted by JayBar


Nor Cal Al
I but is there a mounting bracket available?

I called wilwood today about the same thing. NO BRACKET! got to fab your own. He just told me its "universal". Big help there!

sid

[niles]

This is a perfect example why good help is hard to find.

Jaybar/tfarhood; I did read the posts; the part about finding the leak was proper; then you took the leap to propose that the MC seals were leaking and where to get a replacement.

Lets logically review. New BDR, new MC. Very low probablity that it's bad. If it was; and the the seals were leaking? Where are the seals, they are on the actuation rod, if that was the source most of the fluid would be inside the firewall on the pedal assy. Leaky seals dripple, not spray fluid all over the engine, firewall ,windshield, headers. This kind of massive leak would only come from the MC joints or connections on the engine side of the firewall. Most likey its a two port MC, most logical would be a loose fitting, the wrong fitting it the MC or a cracked or improper flare.
You don't just go replace the MC; the car is made for Wilwood or tilton, etc MC. There are mounting bolt patterns, rod lengths, etc that must be correct. Not even mentioning the most important; the slave and MC have to be matched, in dia's and volume or else lthe two won't work right together.
The idea that people think there are 4 & 6 clinder MC's that unsuitabale for a v8 is sad. Wilwood and tilton etc come in different diameter bores that create the hydraulic multiplication that is needed for the combination of parts used-period.
This is the very reason many people have problems with internal throwout bearings. They don't understand that each are made for a specific dia. MC and a pedal stop has to be used.
Please refrain from flaming the messager, this ends my involvement in the discussion.
Jeffco; if you still having problems figuring it out, get with me with private EM and I'll be glad to help.
gn

[flipper35]

Or in some cases like mine, there is a massive leak because of a bad seal in the cap. I think people are just giving him avenues to try if one doesn't seem to be the problem, go to the next. As a side note: the Girling, Tilton, Wilwood all have MCs with the same universal mounting bolt holes. Not saying it is the MC, just that the argument about mounting incompatibilities was just as unhelpful.

A bad flare or a crack will not usually spray fluid either. With no hood it is probably blowing up over the windshield from inside the engine compartment.

There is a dye you can put in to trace where the leak is if you can't find it with the naked eye.

[JayBar]

Niles,

Originally posted by niles

I don't normal make comments to these type post; but after reading all these totally unhelpful poosts here goes.

gn

Just where did the flame start?

[tfarhood]

JayBar - Thanks again .

Niles, I never said it was the Master Cylinder, only stated that "if it is" the MC, here is the part number. Also gave the part number for the slave as well. Unfortunately, the owners manual from BDR is almost non-existent. So offering part numbers that aren't from S. Africa are always welcome from BDR owners.
Anyway, if it is "spraying" all over the engine compartment, it should be easy to see if you have your "wife, kid, or neighbor" hold the pedal down while you take a looksee. If you don't see it spraying out of somewhere, then it probably is dripping and only flying up due to the hood being off the car. Your technical explaination of the MC and Slave were good, but the flaming started with you. The bottom line is that we are all just trying to help, and help was asked for. Now, if I said that it is caused by a loose gas cap or a muffler bearing being worn-out, then go ahead and FLAME me.

[jeffko]

Seems like a lively debate going on here. Niles, you could relax a little although I do appreciate your perspective. However, part numbers and personal experiences are what make this forum work. Although I will not know for sure until tomorrow or Thursday, it seems Cashburn and Flipper's experience is the same as my own. Did you replace the cap or what. Do you have a part number and source for what worked for you?

At first I thought it was the line connection at the top of the master which in fact was not tight. Reason being the headers would smoke, the line was wet top to bottom and there would be spray on the windshield. I really never considered the cap until Cashburn's post which was aided by Flipper's post. The cap is only inches away and would explain the same fluid dispersion. I realized that most caps that I recalled even had a rubber cone that was meant to collapse. I can only think that the cone was to dampen the fluid so as to not expose air to the line under hard braking and cornering. I also would think it reasonable to think that the fluid will rise in the reservoir as the pressure is applied because not all that fluid can be forced down the line to the brake or clutch. Which is probably the reason they are very specific about not overfilling the reservoir? Incidentally, I can not see the fill line in my reservoir which would also lead to overfilling and cause a leaky cap. Now to find a cap with the dampening cone. Plus an easy fix like a cap will save time which equals a couple of beers and more fun time in the car. Flipper..Cashburn? Thanks guys for all your posts. I will let you know what does the trick.

Jeff

[SCOBRAC]

Jeff,

I have my bleeder down too. It I found by either bleeding the slave on a workbence or carefully having someone push the clutch pedal down with you holding the slave rightside up... er, upside down (with the bleeder screw up) holding the piston in place you can get all the air out.

I had my clutch hose fail on the road and spew fluid everwhere, I understand your frustration.

[tfarhood]

Jeffko, these caps on the willwood MC are easy to get on wrong. If you look, the threads on the MC & cap are a joke. I had to try a couple of times to make sure it was going on straight. Also, it may not be down tight, maybe just an eighth of a turn short of closed. It is very hard to see/reach considering its location. When I replaced my MC, I removed the side louver to gain access. It really made it easy to reach. I would not bother to do that to tighten the cap normally, but if you still have a problem, it may be helpful.