302 vs 351?

[Cashburn]

One of my favorite motors in these cars is the Roush 342R. It is ideally suited to the light car and does not get very hot. The 392 is another nice match in the 351W variety.

Our customers who put the most miles on their cars have either the Ford Racing 302/345HP package or the 392/430HP setup. Mike is going to have to show them up with the 408 this year.

[Jeff Frigo]

Think about how you will feel when somebody (basically everybody) asks what engine is under the hood? Umm... its a 5.0.

[jmarsey]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

Think about how you will feel when somebody (basically everybody) asks what engine is under the hood? Umm... its a 5.0.

Wow Jeff, that's a pretty arrogant statement. Should I feel bad because I have a 5.0 that makes 580 naturally aspirated HP under my hood?

Please, let me know. John

[Jeff Frigo]

Originally Posted by jmarsey

Wow Jeff, that's a pretty arrogant statement. Should I feel bad because I have a 5.0 that makes 580 naturally aspirated HP under my hood?

Please, let me know. John

Don't feel bad, but anybody can make hp at big rpm's. Besides, why is the first question that most people ask is "You got a 427 in that?" The guy asked for an opinion, and I gave him mine.

[jmarsey]

Ok Jeff, and thanks for clearing that up for me.

[DavidNJ]

Originally Posted by niles

When I'm loafing around at 2K and I punch it; I want immediate tire scredding; not wait .5 sec for the revs to climb to 3K.

I think this quote sums it up well. There is also a thread in the Kirkham forum about 289s, increased demand, and handling.

If you want to drive the car with an E320s cruising rpm, and your are interested in power between 2000 and 3500 rpm, you would want a big motor with a relatively lazy cam.

If you like beating the heck out of the car...driving with your foot to the foor and shifting at the redline (and don't live in the desert/Montana/etc.), something a little slower that needs to be rev'd for power can be more fun.

When people say 302, they usually mean 8.2" deck height block family. With a 4" bore that can go from a 289 (4.00" x 2.87") to a 347 (4.03"x 3.40"). With a Dart, World, or SVO block that can be bored to 4.185, that could go to 375 (4.155"x3.5").

When they say 351 they mean a 9.2" or 9.5" deck height block. These can go from 351 (4.00"x3.50") to 408 (4.03"x4.00"). With a World/Dart/SVO block this can go to 460 (4.155"x4.250"). 358 (4.155" x 3.335") is a popular size, used in Nascar engines. Summit sells a complete (carb to ignition, dynoed and warrantied) 460cid 575hp World engine for $11,000. I'm pretty sure that Keith Craft or another reputable Ford shop (FPS, Bennett) would have something similar.

A more custom 302 or 351, such as John Marsey's Yates headed 331, can run closer to $20k. And I can imagine an aluminium block, titanium rod, dry sumped engine (which I believe some people have put in Kirkhams) running over $25k.

The weight difference between a 8.2" and 9.5" block setup is an insignficant 30-50#. However, your headers may be designed to line up with one or the other. The 8.2" block is a little lower, allowing a taller intake to clear. Although, I've seen pretty tall 351 setups clearing in most of the cars I've seen.

A couple of people have mentioned the advantages of saying you have a 427 in a car that looks like a 427 S/C. 390 FEs can be very street drivable for under $10k. They externally look like a 427FE.

Few of the 427FEs are 427s these days, with most people going for stroked and bored versions. Also, many are using new aluminum blocks and heads, that really aren't original designs under the covers.

I believe most purchasers of used Superformance and Backdraft cars expect to find 302/351 family of engine under the hood. As long as yours is from a reputable builder your resale should be ok.

[DavidNJ]

Jeff,

A "5.0" is a specific engine used in 80s and early 90s Mustangs. A 302/351 can be anything, some producing over 800hp in NA no nitrous street trim.

Cammed appropriately for power, even a 600cid engine needs to be reved. Just the tendency is to run the big cube engines with relatively small cams. With a 270/270/108 cam with maybe .65-.70" lift, you may not be as satisified below 3000 rpm.

[427SnakeSC]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

Don't feel bad, but anybody can make hp at big rpm's. Besides, why is the first question that most people ask is "You got a 427 in that?" The guy asked for an opinion, and I gave him mine.

I get asked all the time, "Is there a 427 in that?" Side emblems "427 Ford Cobra" That is one of the reasons I am going with a CSX with a 427 FE in it. I will feel a little better when they ask.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by 427SnakeSC

I get asked all the time, "Is there a 427 in that?" Side emblems "427 Ford Cobra" That is one of the reasons I am going with a CSX with a 427 FE in it. I will feel a little better when they ask.

You would probably feel even better if you were driving it instead of waiting for it too Worth the wait though.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

Don't feel bad, but anybody can make hp at big rpm's. Besides, why is the first question that most people ask is "You got a 427 in that?" The guy asked for an opinion, and I gave him mine.

Nope, first question is "Is it real or a kit?" to which you will both have the same answer

[wtm442]

Hey, who really cares about all of the questions. Last question I got was "What year is that Jaguar?". My answer was "1948". He nodded and drove off. Maybe next time someone asks if its a 427, I'll tell them its been stroked and bored to 740 in3.

[427SnakeSC]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

You would probably feel even better if you were driving it instead of waiting for it too Worth the wait though.

I still have my Classic Roadster S/C, so I am not going through withdrawl, yet. Still plenty of fun to be had! Besides, I am thinking of adding the cosmetics to make my SB look like a 427! You gotta admit, most of the people that ask, can not tell the difference!

[Boudy]

I've driven BDR's with just about all of the engines mentioned and I still like my 347. It doesn't have the torque of the Winsors but I just love to wind it to hell. With the top end port matched, heads ported, and the old sidepipes, it's crisp and instantainious.

If I had to do it again, I'd go big. But only because it will be different.

Boudy

[Naumoff]

Are you getting a Cobra to have the fastest car on the street or are you getting a Cobra to experience what it would be like to have the car Shelby built in the 60's?
You can only put so much HP to the street.

[Jeff Frigo]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Nope, first question is "Is it real or a kit?" to which you will both have the same answer

Sorry, its been a couple of years since I have driven it!!

[Jeff Frigo]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Are you getting a Cobra to have the fastest car on the street or are you getting a Cobra to experience what it would be like to have the car Shelby built in the 60's?
You can only put so much HP to the street.

B.S.

Read my signature.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by Jeff Frigo

B.S.

Read my signature.

That's your opinion and my post is mine. No Bu!!sh!t.

[SkipB]

Buy as much horsepower as you can afford regardless of the engine choice. I love my 351W/385hp, but wish I had about another 100 or so hp!

My favorite drive was in a 347 that had 500+hp and I think was redlined at over 7000rpm. (not real sure about this) What a thrill, especially when we merged onto Interstate 8 at about 7000rpm in 2nd gear. It really caught the eye of the CHP officer who came up next to us as we shifted into 3rd. He just wagged a finger at us and grinned. We went quickly into 5th and slowed down. That engine is a real screamer and sounds great.

SkipB

[uncltodd]

Thomas, little Gunrack will never see 250 without a front air dam.

With a 351W at 325 RWHP pulling strongly through 5th...

the front end started to float at 155.

'Nuff for me.

Next time around, dead-stock injected 302. The wife might actually drive that one.

UT

[Burnd]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

You can only put so much HP to the street.

Absolutely correct. The rest is useless except for blowing smoke. I considered camming back. I think I can get better 0 -1000ft's with less but more "manageable" HP and not worry about doing and end-arounds at 80MPH when it breaks loose in third. All that HP sounds great till it jumps up and bites you in the ass when you can't hook it up in any gear. Hopefully you're alone as opposed to risking someone else's neck. If all you're doing is talking about what you got, instead of jumpin on it; then it's no big deal. Been to that show and it's a wake-up call.