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1Likes
06-03-2008, 12:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Folsom,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 427 Stroker, Sterling Gray/Silver
Posts: 68
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Not Ranked
BDR slave cylinder failure
Does anyone have a pictire of their clutch slave cylinder setup with a TKO tranny?
Mine blew out last weekend and my new replacement Wilwood cylinder (PART#260-1333) is significantly different than my old one.
Thanks for any help
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06-03-2008, 03:06 PM
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Backdraft Racing Dealer
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Haven,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft Racing
Posts: 5,122
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Not Ranked
Your best bet is to peruse our photo gallery of Customer Cars. There are plenty of pictures showing the different setups we have used with the Wilwood units. Angle iron is all you need to make a simple bracket. It must bolt to the motor mount or the bellhousing... do not bolt it to the frame or you will suffer clutch chatter.
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06-03-2008, 10:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Folsom,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 427 Stroker, Sterling Gray/Silver
Posts: 68
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Not Ranked
Thanks Jay!!! Great pics on your website.
I really appreciate all the help you have given me over the past couple years.
Mike
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06-04-2008, 06:42 AM
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Backdraft Racing Dealer
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Haven,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft Racing
Posts: 5,122
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Not Ranked
No problem. I've got some new pics I can email you. Send me a quick email and I will send you one of the bracket from my iPhone.
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06-04-2008, 06:29 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Lonestar Classics, 302 stroked to 347; Metallic British Racing Green
Posts: 595
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Not Ranked
Mike...go check out the Lonestar forum on the Wilwood slave cylinders for some potential issues on how the pistin rod comes unscrewed from the piston and can cause failures.
http://www.lonestarclassics.com/__LS...hp?p=8116#8116
This may NOT apply to your configuration as it seems most of the issues are with the T56 tranny, but it is a simple step NOW if you disassemble and then reassemble with Loctite BEFORE you install it. The Lonestar forum postings are fairly detailed!
Good luck
Glyn
__________________
Cave magister imperitus - Beware the inexperienced teacher
"No, I DON'T have an accent, this is how English sounds when it is pronounced correctly!"
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06-04-2008, 07:52 PM
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Backdraft Racing Dealer
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Haven,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft Racing
Posts: 5,122
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Not Ranked
Yes, the red loctite is one step. We also drill and pin the rod as well. That procedure was covered here or on backdraftboys.com
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06-05-2008, 06:09 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Peachtree City,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR - 351 / 385 hp
Posts: 230
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Not Ranked
Wilwood & Loctite
Jay,
How do you hold the piston to remove the rod? I attempted this when I replaced my slave cyl. The Wilwood piston / rod assemby appeared to have a clear, Loctite type product in the threads and I couldn't begin to break them apart . Maybe Wilwwod has improved their product?
__________________
Speedy
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06-05-2008, 08:14 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Folsom,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft 427 Stroker, Sterling Gray/Silver
Posts: 68
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Not Ranked
Glyn,
Thanks for the link. My last slave cylinder was not a Wilwood. Lets hope this one fairs better.
Mike
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06-05-2008, 09:51 PM
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Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aberdeen,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft Racing #473 with 351W/400hp and TKO500
Posts: 26
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Not Ranked
Slave Cylinder Replacement
NorCal Cobra,
There is a good discussion of this issue on the Backdraft Boys site. The installation of the slave cylinder on my BDR was not satisfactory and appears common to pull type slave cylinders that are mounted to the frame and transmission, whether BDR or not. Three Cobra owners in our local club have changed out their pull type slave cylinders and replaced with a push type slave cylinder. I completed the change over last weekend also. Whether by design or from the original installation, the pull type slave cylinder action in BDR473 felt soft and the clutch did not release or engage smoothly. When put into reverse, the clutch did not engage completely and I had concerns for the life of the thrown out bearing; some of these effects may have been adjustment related. One of our club members has a lift and has fabricated the past attachment brackets and components. His past mechanical experience made the installation easy and took us about three hours. A number of slave cylinders will work, but we used a Rhino Pac slave cylinder utilized on a 91-95 Mazda Miata and the Salvos Part number was S1080. A new bracket was fabricated from angle iron that attached to the TKO500 transmission utilizing existing bolts. The cylinder rod was fabricated from a bolt. Tension on the slave cylinder was maintained by mounting a spring to work against the piston. I have attached photos in my galley of the original slave cylinder setup and views of the new slave cylinder setup. The Dot 3 fluid was dark, indicating heating of the fluid by the headers. Bleeding the system was not difficult, once you figured out how to get the new fluid into into the clutch reservoir, considering its placement up under the fender. I plan to mount heat shields on further reduce heating of the Dot 3 fluids. The clutch now releases much better with less movement of the clutch pedal and reverse is now smooth. I will see how the modification operates over time. Good luck.
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06-18-2008, 02:07 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gig Harbor,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR#499 351W with Webers
Posts: 268
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Not Ranked
My slave (Wilwood) is also leaking. This car is less than a year old, has not seen any track time, has the heat sheilds installed and the setup is the modified Vintage Motors design.
It sounds like this is a fairly common problem. Is it mainly limited to the Wilwood units, or do other brands fail just as often? Has anyone rebuilt their cylinders and if so, how did they hold up?
I remember as a kid I had an old '62 Chevy PU with a hydraulic clutch (first with a 235-6cyl then a 327) and never had any trouble with it. I am not sure of the brand, but it was probably a Bendix??
Gun Doc
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06-18-2008, 03:33 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bradenton Florida,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR 930, 427 Windsor T56
Posts: 658
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Not Ranked
I've posted this on other threads about the clutch set up. You will need to bleed the clutch system completely every 6-12 months. The fluid will get cooked. Heat shields, covering and even re-routing the line will only prolong the time between required fluid changes. At a minimum, the fluid should be changed once a year. The fluid will absorb moisture. Once it does it becomes more susceptible to being cooked by the under hood temperatures.
Suck the old fluid out of the master cylinder and fill it with fresh clean fluid from an unopened container. Have someone work the clutch pedal for you while you work the slave end. Expect to only get about 3 pumps before you need to refill the master. I've found that I need to put almost an entire pint of fluid through the system to have the fluid look satisfactory.
I lost my first slave and mc within the first year. Regular fluid change has eliminated the problem.
__________________
Jim Pomroy
Have Fun!
BDR #930
08 Corvette Coupe
92 Sunburst Yellow Miata
#81 Saturn V Miata Crapcan racer
Panoz GTRA #42
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06-19-2008, 11:40 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 379
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Not Ranked
mr gun doc, you are experiencing what many other b/d owners and myself have gone through with their new cars. I have watched this subject kicked around on this forum for about 3 years...their has not been a good solution yet except gatorac's, to have to change the fluid annually. It doesn't seem to matter which brand slave/c you use, they are all good...I never thought the heat shields would help much (they were touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread though!), and it appears they don't...I happen to use dot 5 fluid with no problems (though I was highly criticized for suggesting to use dot 5) for 2 years with a stock mazda s/c after my initial replacement ( @ 600 miles/ 1 year). The other alternative would be a remote fluid resevoir....too much trouble for me....keep changing your fluid, dude!
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06-19-2008, 01:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR #259 351W
Posts: 91
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Not Ranked
I suspect problems soon and I don't for a second think this is common to BDR only. I have put 12k on mine and changed the fluid 2 times over the last 2 1/2 years. I do have the heat shield but I think even with this the real issue is cooked fluid and changing is the best solution. All these cars run extremely hot and eventually it will catch up to me and I will need to change the slave, but hopefully not this weekend.
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07-17-2008, 01:39 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: S.Elgin,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: 396 long block, PROBE Forged Dished pistons 8.75 to 1 and Vic Jr. heads from Engine Factory. Tremec TKO. BDR#244 Sterling Gray/Silver stripes. 17in polished wheels, glove box and tonneau cover.
Posts: 1,846
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Not Ranked
Guess i haven't been paying attention lately. I am on my 4th throwout bearing. Got a pull style set up from Forte's Parts. Fits in the hole that is on the Aluminum Bell housing from Ford. I have the same issues. I have the heat shield but not on the car yet. Just got my new VW Rabbit front struts installed on the cobra.
Sid
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T.S.B. of The West Side Cobra Club
N.D.N.P.N.P.
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07-17-2008, 02:27 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Virginia Beach,
va
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR #250
Posts: 234
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Not Ranked
I went through 4 slaves before I switched to a hydraulic throw out bearing...No problems since then....Pedal is firm and the stroke is short, I installed all thread in the nut welded to the clutch pedal for a pedal stop. I do change the fluid before I go to the track and I use high temp fluid such as ATE super blue. The heat can be controlled by ceramic coating the headers. I know most don't want to drop the trans to do this but if you have to replace slaves every 3 to six months then your saving time and money to make the switch to a Hyd t/o bearing...Just my experience..... Mac
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07-17-2008, 05:40 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bradenton Florida,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR 930, 427 Windsor T56
Posts: 658
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Just got my new VW Rabbit front struts installed on the cobra.
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??? Tell me more. What's this for? Better performance? Eliminate the shimmy?
__________________
Jim Pomroy
Have Fun!
BDR #930
08 Corvette Coupe
92 Sunburst Yellow Miata
#81 Saturn V Miata Crapcan racer
Panoz GTRA #42
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07-28-2008, 07:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Freehold,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 16
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Not Ranked
Has anyone used ATE SuperBlue High Performance DOT 4 fluid? It has a boiling point of 536 degrees as compared to DOT 3 at 400 and DOT 4 at 450. It exceeds the DOT 4 spec and is under DOT 5.1
May help extend the life of the fluid?
Al
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"The shortest distance between two points is never taken in the Cobra."
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07-28-2008, 07:35 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bradenton Florida,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR 930, 427 Windsor T56
Posts: 658
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Not Ranked
Any fluid absorbs moisture which lowers the boiling point. You will still need to change it often. I use the same fluid I use in the brake system of my race car. Wilwood 570. As the name implies, it has a dry boiling point of 570*.
Bleed (or have your mechanic do it) every 9-12 months and don't worry about it.
__________________
Jim Pomroy
Have Fun!
BDR #930
08 Corvette Coupe
92 Sunburst Yellow Miata
#81 Saturn V Miata Crapcan racer
Panoz GTRA #42
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07-28-2008, 07:44 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
Well I guess in this case ERA aint got nothing over BDR (I'll wash my mouth out with soap later ).
My slave cylinder blew out on Sunday, had to cruise on back home blipping the throttle to make the shifts. My new mantra: Red light? Turn RIGHT!
Come to think of it, I believe the ERA slave cylinder is a BMW unit, could be a conspiracy...
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07-28-2008, 08:21 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Freehold,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 16
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Not Ranked
Jim,
Bleeding the system as part of a maintenance program looks like good advice. I see that there are a number of high temp fluids on the market that may help the situation a bit. I know this thread deals with the clutch fluid but is a similar periodic bleeding suggested for the brake fluid as well?
Al
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"The shortest distance between two points is never taken in the Cobra."
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