Ratty tat tat under the valve cover. - Page 2

Gaz64 · #21 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanab5150

We have multiple winners.......I checked all the rockers and they appear fine. I adjusted all the valves with 1/2 turn of preload. I turned the engine over several times with the starter the grabbed each lifter to confirm they were not loose. I found three that were loose with about .020 lash....wtf!

I assumed I did something wrong and loosened all the lock nuts again and started over. Again I cycled the engine and felt for loose rockers.....THERE THEY ARE AGAIN!

This time I rotated the engine and as the exhaust started to close I checked the loose rocker and it was snug??????????????? Then, I rotated the engine a bit and there the slop came back........On 3 rollers, no less!

Off came the intake and I found 3 lifters with slop in the needle bearings. The worst was .026 and the other 2 were about .020 slop. The rest were tight but I used a dial indicator and all were virtually immeasurable.

It made my day to find the bad roller lifters. Now I could use some recommendations on a new set. These have no name on them but have "AC8" on the side. I know nothing about rollers but am going to replace all of them..........Recommendations???

Also, I have a question regarding rebuilding the Roush engine at 15K miles.....Why?

This time I rotated the engine and as the exhaust started to close I checked the loose rocker and it was snug???????????????

This is your first mistake, exhaust starting to close would be about 70 ABBC (110 BTDC). At that point, the intake could be on or near to the start of the opening ramp.
Rule of thumb is EOIC, exhaust opening-adjust inlet, inlet closing-adjust exhaust.

lippy · #22 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWB

i see Isky has a bushed lifter with no roller bearings but i have never used them nor have i ever talked to anyone that has. they look interesting though.

Brent is using these lifters on my build and has experience with them. When we were choosing the parts I spoke with an engineer at Isky and he claimed they have test data that shows these lifters last 2-3x (or more) roller bearing lifters, and several of the guys at Isky use them on their daily drivers (I guess that's why they work at Isky) and have 40-50k+ miles on them with normal adjustment. It certainly sounds like a good design idea to me.

patrickt · #23 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

Brent is using these lifters on my build and has experience with them. When we were choosing the parts I spoke with an engineer at Isky and he claimed they have test data that shows these lifters last 2-3x (or more) roller bearing lifters, and several of the guys at Isky use them on their daily drivers (I guess that's why they work at Isky) and have 40-50k+ miles on them with normal adjustment. It certainly sounds like a good design idea to me.

How do you two know that they're not counterfeit parts?

Bernica · #24 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

How do you two know that they're not counterfeit parts?

Yep, read the article in the latest Hot Rod magazine. Damn shame to the industry, but you just need to be aware.

patrickt · #25 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernica

Yep, read the article in the latest Hot Rod magazine. Damn shame to the industry, but you just need to be aware.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's another subject that no one wants to talk about and everyone wants to pretend like it never happens. You know, like getting killed driving your Cobra....

lippy · #26 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 02:45 PM

From reading that article, the parts usually are visibly inferior to pros like Brent. And you don't usually get knock off parts from approved distributors. But I don't know anything for sure.

patrickt · #27 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

From reading that article, the parts usually are visibly inferior to pros like Brent. And you don't usually get knock off parts from approved distributors. But I don't know anything for sure.

Well, if you asked Brent "Have you ever received counterfeit parts?" -- would you feel better if he answered "yes" or "no?"

Rick Parker · #28 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 04:12 PM

There are pieces of fractured bearing cages missing too.

wanab5150 · #29 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 06:22 PM

Looking into the intake ports 4 of the 8 intake valves have gunk on them. 4 are exceptionally clean. Valve guides or valve guide seals i'm guessing.

I bought the engine new in '05 and it's used a quart of oil every 1000 miles since new and hasn't changed EXCEPT when running the 100 miles from paso Robles to Monterey on Highway 1....then its about a quart for the 100 miles. I have 2 other 427r friends and 1 402r buddy and they do the same.

I'm only a few bolts from removing the heads and freshening them up but I hate to remove a perfectly good head.

jhv48 · #30 (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 06:52 PM

While you are replacing lifters, freshen up the heads. Have the guides and seals done by a qualified machine shop.

The guides and seals seem to be a weak spot on these engines. Might as well do it now.

PANAVIA · #31 (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 01:27 PM

If you have gone this far, you should complete the job. - clean the valves , get some nicer roller lifters, roller rockers etc.

Note: when we see scorpion rockers, we remove them and put on Comp cams or Ford Racing / Cranes. I would also check valve spring pressures , open and closed. -- if the lifters are stock roller lifters from ford , it could be - they may not be up to a heavy spring pressure from the head , which did them in.

madmaxx · #32 (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 01:39 PM

Bingo!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by panavia

if you have gone this far, you should complete the job. - clean the valves , get some nicer roller lifters, roller rockers etc.

Note: When we see scorpion rockers, we remove them and put on comp cams or ford racing / cranes. I would also check valve spring pressures , open and closed. -- if the lifters are stock roller lifters from ford , it could be - they may not be up to a heavy spring pressure from the head , which did them in.

PANAVIA · #33 (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 10:44 PM

I spoke to Tom and gave him some direction on what I would put in there. - sounds like the same old story - Rated R' !

wanab5150 · #34 (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 11:04 PM

I want to thank you Steve for the phone call and emails.

As You prescribed, I ordered the Comp Cams CCA851-16 Roller lifters and the Comp Cams Gold 19044-16 roller rockers. I ordered them from Amazon.com (the best price I could find). I buy almost everything automotive from them now. I can't believe the stuff they sell.

Anyway, thanks again. I'll run it another 10K or so and truck it over to you for a rebuild unless you see me sooner. I have little faith in Roush at this point.

tom

madmaxx · #35 (**permalink**) 10-29-2013, 06:20 AM

Valve train is hardest service in engine. You know this now. I would get a cam with reasonable spring pressure for stock hydraulic roller, 350 open / 150 close. I have gotten lifters from comp where you could see the needle bearings sticking out the side. I would go ford racing stock. They are in millions and millions of mustangs with billions of miles. Call blykins on cam selection etc and put it to rest once and for all. The cam profile is more important than lift, especially when determining spring pressures.