Registration Process for a Replica?

[Brastic]

There are a lot of people who will help out with your registration. Please make sure that you have found someone who understands SPCN and SB100. Even with their help, you are still responsible for the information. Think of this like having someone do you taxes. If the account screws up your taxes, you still go to jail.

[ACHiPo]

I've been in contact with Donna Leek of Professional Registration Services based in Grass Valley, CA. I spoke with her and traded emails. I was impressed with her knowledge of CA registration, SB100 and professionalism, and her services definitely might makes sense for those of us with limited time and tolerance of bureaucracy. She charges $500 to walk through an SB100 registration, and $275 for a more straight forward registration for a used kit car with a 1965 or earlier out of state title. She can be reached at (530) 320-5708 (I received her permission to post her contact info).

[Brastic]

Looks good to me. If I had known about her, I would have hired her. I would have saved a lot of time hiring the registration out.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Brastic

Looks good to me. If I had known about her, I would have hired her. I would have saved a lot of time hiring the registration out.

Then you're missing half the fun of owning a Cobra in CA.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Then you're missing half the fun of owning a Cobra in CA.

Guess it all depends on your definition of fun!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

Guess it all depends on your definition of fun!

There are two DMV registration appointments. One at the beginning and one to turn in all your paperwork at the end. This SB100 person doesn't do the CHP, BAR or B&L appointments. So a Cobra owner is being charged either $250 or $500 for almost no work IMO. A couple 1/2 hour appts. The SB100 process has been fully documented for a decade here at CC. I'm not a rocket scientist and I was able to do it. It's not hard in the least.

[sea2jet]

Can a used cobra from another state with a newer than 1960's title, or a cobra from a non title state that transfers on its registration, be registered in CA?

[jhv48]

Yes, but you would be wise to "correct" the actual year of manufacture and apply for an sb100 exemption.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by sea2jet

Can a used cobra from another state with a newer than 1960's title, or a cobra from a non title state that transfers on its registration, be registered in CA?

I asked Ms. Leek about a specific used car I was considering that was titled in another state. I emailed her photos of the title (it was registered in GA as a 1965 Ford). She said all that needed to be done is get the car registered in CA as a 1965 Ford. Sounded much less involved than the SB100 process.

I'm still just trying to figure this stuff out, and there are only so many hours in a day to search and read (and work and make money to pay for a toy), so by all means do your own due diligence.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

She said all that needed to be done is get the car registered in CA as a 1965 Ford. Sounded much less involved than the SB100 process.

It might be easier, but it ain't legal. Best of luck with that.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It might be easier, but it ain't legal. Best of luck with that.

RodKnock,
Once again I appreciate your knowledge and experience. Can you elaborate on why it is not legal to register a 1965 car in CA when another state has already determined that it was a 1965 Ford?

AC

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Tread lightly with that 1965 registration. According to the CHP, your vehicle is fraudulently registered and can be confiscated if caught. You can be prosecuted and fined in the process. Even though the dmv based the registration on how the previous state registered it, it still isn't a 1965 vehicle and if caught, you will be held responsible. The reason is simple, $$$$$. California bases their registration fees on the actual year of the vehicle. The newer the date, the higher the fees. Thus, by knowingly allowing the car to be registered as a 1965 when in reality it is a 20--, you are considered to be committing fraud.

This has been discussed many times on this forum. Not condemning you. I'm only making you aware of the possible repercussions.
There are stories of officers walking car shows and checking the registrations of all the cars. Any found to be be incorrect were towed away and the owner left to fight it out at a later date. Just the thought of having my car towed to a storage lot was enough to make me cringe.

If it were me, I would return to the DMV and inform them of their error and begin the correct sb100 registration process and pay the appropriate fees. Then drive and enjoy the peace of mind.

See above from an earlier post.

Just because another state has registered it as a 1965 doesn't magically change the actual manufacture date to a 1965. Replicas were never made in 1965, obviously. And I'd be nervous running around in your "1965 Ford", when in fact it was not built in 1965.

There's a process for registering these cars (SB100 for new builds and SB 1578 for used out of state Cobras) and I'd personally follow it.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

See above from an earlier post.

Just because another state has registered it as a 1965 doesn't magically change the actual manufacture date to a 1965. Replicas were never made in 1965, obviously. And I'd be nervous running around in your "1965 Ford", when in fact it was not built in 1965.

There's a process for registering these cars (SB100 for new builds and SB 1578 for used out of state Cobras) and I'd personally follow it.

RodKnock,
Per your earlier guidance, I'd tried several searches here, on the DMV site, and Google on different variants of "new/used kit car registration in CA" that did not lead to a clear understanding of the process. This is the first I've seen a reference to SB 1578. This time I searched for "SB 1578" and sure enough found some good explanations. A heck of a lot easier when you know what to search for--kinda like a teacher saying "look it up" when you don't know what letter the word starts with.

I'm sure it's frustrating when newbies come in and ask a bunch of basic questions that were hashed through years ago. Trust me it's also frustrating to spend what little free time you have researching without getting a clear understanding of the licensing process. It seems like this topic is ripe for a "sticky" or FAQ to save the frustration?

Regards,
AC

California SB 1578

SB100 was enacted to enable folks to INITIALLY register new SPCN builds by either the year of the engine, OR, the year the body most closely resembles. Not by chassis, not to RE-REGISTER replirides. If the BAR dude can't figure out what year your car most closely resembles, the process defaults to 1960. I don't know why anybody would try to justify an engine by year, when there are about 275 million pictures of 64/67 Shelby Cobras in the public domain one could use to establish a baseline.

SB1578 was enacted to REMOVE the "INITIAL" part of the registration process on SPCN rides. If one had a replica that had been "mis-registered" initially, htru no fault of his own, one can use SB1578 to correct this oversight. Of course, one will have to pay the taxes,( NOT sales tax, it's a USE tax, which just happens to be the same rate as the local sales tax.)

The real question is "what does the DMV really need to see to register my SPCN?" Since I just went thru this, I feel pretty comfortable in answering. They want to see:
1. MSO, from the factory
2. RECIEPTS of the engine , transmission, the kit, and any other relevant major components. I took in paper on wheels and tires, engine, kit and tranny, and the DMV seemed pretty happy. Me too. The lady charged me $1800, then reduced it to $1336 when I showed her the reciepts of the "MAJOR COMPONENTS." If one had used a Mustang donor, all one would need would be the MSO and title to your donor car, very frugal. I've seen Mustangs as low as $100 around.

That's it. Some folks take in every receipt for every nut and bolt, but this practice just serves to confound the clerks at DMV. Keep It Simple Stoopid, take in the bare neccessities. It appears, after my recent foray, that the impression is that the value of most SPCN cars are all the same as an FFR kit, i.e. $25K or so, as it appears FFR's are most frequently presented. This info could be beneficial to folks who are building other types of cars. Heck fire, if one bought, oh say, a Kirkam roller for 22K, and a "donor car" for a couple of thou, the bill would be almost the same as mine. If one is adamant that he doesn't own any "cheepo" replica, then step right up to the 8% on 80/100K "use tax".

One further note, if your replica is registered as a 65, 66 or whatever, beware. It seems DMV is asking folks with cars titled as such to present the cars and paperwork to justify the exemption. Check out the Superformance thread from a couple of days ago, there have been some FFR types receiving the same letter.

[ACHiPo]

Ok so I'm feeling a bit better now, having stumbled across more information on the early days of SB 1578.

I now also have a better understanding of RodKnock's definition of fun.

Thought y'all might enjoy this blast from the past as well...

Originally Posted by SCOBRAC

Yea, I figured you guys could go look up SB 1578, but thank you cowboy for spelling it out..

So today.. Jan 6, 2003, five days after the DMV babe Wanda who was trying to process my title change but didn't have a procedure to do so, but did sit on hold with HEADQUARTERS for an hour failed yet again to call me back as she promised she would.

I called HEADQUARTERS myself.. First guy I get says.. SB 1578 wasn't passed, but then tells me it only affects smog standards.. OK, was it not passed or does it affect smog standards.. But is willing to pass the buck, (and give me a telephone number to the Reichstag itself..

Second person, higher up the food chain... Ya, Ve don't have any information on that new law sir.. Would you like to call the Vice Field-Marshall Von Uberfurer, they make the procedures.. "What.. Yes.. Of course.. Get me their number.."

So I get an intelliget sounding (english speaking person) "Office of the Uberfurer" (cool.. this has only taken an hour on the phone) I ask her if I can find out the status of my particular case, or even whether there has been a procedure established to register cars under 1578. She seems to understand the question, (this is the first person to do so)

"What DMV did you go to sir.. Procedures have been clearly established" (ok I'm this five hours into this including today's calls) So I tell her as politely as I can there has been considerable confusion without making my situation any worse..

"If your information was taken and a SPCNS Sequence Number was issued you will receive a Certificate in the mail." Certificate? for what? Just a certificate?? How is it used? (no reply.. then..) "Once a certificate is issued no further action is required".

Ok.. so I need do nothing more, I ask.. "NO" Ok.. thank you for your time.. (leaving well enough alone knowing that the Uberfurer can take as easily as he can give)

So.. I guess you can go to your DMV with a copy of the new law and hope they have been brought up to speed.. I had a internet print out from the California State Senate explaining the new law as well as a page from the DMV website.. The DMV in my local office looked at it and said.. "I hate when they put this stuff on the internet"...

Without it I would have been turned away in 3 min. Good luck..

[jeffnolan]

The CHP inspection is VIN verification and a search in their database for stolen cars/parts. CHP doesn't do anything more than that, it's the easiest part of the entire process.

The DMV paperwork is also pretty straightforward, they really care about one thing: sales tax and registration fee collection. I didn't even have to get a brake or light inspection on my Backdraft.

The BAR is a whole other story. The Bay Area referees are sticklers and they are tuned to looking for turnkey cars being passed off as owner-built and out-of-state cars. Your receipts are important and it helps if you have pictures and/or knowledge of the build. I would advise to answer their questions with simple yes/no and don't elaborate but keep in mind that the referees do like cars and most of the time they are dealing with daily drivers that have problems or other mundane crap. When they get something like a Cobra it is exciting for them. If your referee shows some enthusiasm, go with it.

Also, when they look at your odometer, be sure to check and repeat their mileage recording, the guy in Daly City that did my car recorded my 1128.8 miles as 11,288 miles and it cost me 5 months of multiple visits and calls to Sacramento.

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by jeffnolan

The BAR is a whole other story. The Bay Area referees are sticklers and they are tuned to looking for turnkey cars being passed off as owner-built and out-of-state cars. Your receipts are important and it helps if you have pictures and/or knowledge of the build. I would advise to answer their questions with simple yes/no and don't elaborate but keep in mind that the referees do like cars and most of the time they are dealing with daily drivers that have problems or other mundane crap. When they get something like a Cobra it is exciting for them. If your referee shows some enthusiasm, go with it.

What is the issue with a turnkey car?

[jeffnolan]

Turnkey, as in completed cars, do not fall within the scope of SB100.

You can have someone else build the car for you but I would strongly advise to not admit that to the BAR referee. The storyline for BAR is "I bought a rolling chassis from X and a motor from Y to complete the car."

Be very careful with the BAR referees as they can prevent you from registering a car, there is no appeal process to their decisions. The BAR refs in other parts of the state are more lenient, the Bay Area refs take the approach of having you prove why you qualify for SB100 and if they registered no SB100s in a year I think they would call that a victory.

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

What is the issue with a turnkey car?

[jeffnolan]

Turnkey, as in completed cars, do not fall within the scope of SB100.

You can have someone else build the car for you but I would strongly advise to not admit that to the BAR referee. The storyline for BAR is "I bought a rolling chassis from X and a motor from Y to complete the car."

Be very careful with the BAR referees as they can prevent you from registering a car, there is no appeal process to their decisions. The BAR refs in other parts of the state are more lenient, the Bay Area refs take the approach of having you prove why you qualify for SB100 and if they registered no SB100s in a year I think they would call that a victory.

Originally Posted by ACHiPo

What is the issue with a turnkey car?

[ACHiPo]

Jeff,
Thanks. I guess I missed the SB100 exclusion of turn key.

AC

[ACHiPo]

Amazing what you find when you know where to look...

http://home.thegrid.net/~ffr4776/SB100_Registration.pdf

"So, technically, if your car was built by a manufacturer (for instance, Shelby American, Inc. claims to be a licensed automobile manufacturer (Shelby Series One)) then you can't register it as a Specially Constructed Vehicle; and these cars should meet all of the criteria form the DOT for a brand new car (like SRS/air bags, 5 MPH bumpers, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, anti-intrusion beams, and - most importantly - they should have brand new engines with all the necessary smog and noise abatement equipment on them).

You have to have built your car, or had it built for private use by someone other than a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer."

This makes it sound as if turn key is ok as long as it's not a licensed automobile manufacturer?

EDIT: The link above was from 2006 (kind of annoying that dates are not obvious on web pages, but a right-click and I was able see that it was created in March, 2006, back when SB100 numbers were hard to get). The author apparently posted this update in 2014--not a lot has changed, other than acknowledging that the SB100 numbers are easier to get and that BAR no longer uses dynos.
http://bauerltd.com/the-magical-sb10...in-california/