NEW or USED, that is the question...

dtmaso · #1 (**permalink**) 09-01-2002, 03:41 PM

Back in 1997 I sold my beloved 1972 GT5 Pantera and have been driving un-reasonable facsimiles ever since. I pondered getting another Pantera, but realized that I’d only be chasing what I already built. Friend and Pantera and Shelby Club member Mike Drew owns a Pantera, a 66 Shelby Mustang clone and a Contemporary 427 S/O. I always loved that little beast, especially once I got to drive it. A BIG BLOCK for me, please!

So, the wife and I checked out Kassabian’s Showroom in Dublin and I discovered Superformance. Sitting there was SPF #507 – with a 460 built by Craig Hill. After rushing home, making some quick phone calls and surfing some websites, I’m certain that SPF is for me. The attention to detail is phenomenal. I spent about $100k on my Pantera before bidding it farewell, so I’ve developed (or at least paid for) the ability to recognize near perfection. SPF sent me their packet and video tape which I tore into like a child with a birthday gift. I actually forgot the name of the man I spoke to at Dynamic MotorSports in Reno. After telling him of #507 and its $55K price tag, he told me that I could get the same car, with all the newer updates, for 3k less (and to watch out for Alabama cars titled as 1965 Fords cause California DMV was scrutinizing them).

I’ve since attended the 2002 MiniNats and met some great folks with SPFs. They were extremely friendly and willing to tell me the ups and downs of owning these cars. So now I want one even MORE.

I did learn that buying/ordering a new one could have me waiting as much as twelve months. I failed to confirm if the purchase price included shipping from S. Africa. I also failed to ask about registration woes.

Obviously it’d be easier and faster for me to buy used, but would it be cheaper in the long run? Considering that Kassabian tagged a little profit onto the sale price of #507, what would a reasonable private-party asking price be for a like car with less than 3k miles on it?

So many questions.

Thanks

Steve

John 550 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-01-2002, 04:26 PM

A spf turn key minus engine , trans is going for 38,4 here .

Lew the taxman · #3 (**permalink**) 09-01-2002, 04:43 PM

Steve

If you are interested in the SPF GO FOR IT. I ordered mine on May 23th. it arrived at Dynamic's in Reno Aug. 19th. Only $10 thou down. Anther 10 when its shipped, and the rest on delivery. All you have to do is to slip the engine & trany in. It even comes with a video, that will show you how to do it. Or! you can have a professonal intaller do it.
By the way... The price includes transportantion.
Hope this helps.

Lew

P.S. The man that you will talk to at Dynamic is Jud. A great guy to deal with.

NROTOXIN · #4 (**permalink**) 09-01-2002, 09:09 PM

Steve,

That was fast getting signed up here.
Come to breakfast in Dublin any Saturday and we can talk all day about all the above. There will be a few people around to give you all the correct Calif reg info.

Curtis

Remember East 580 to Hopyard,
North on Hopyard, left on Dublin Blvd.
Athens Burgers on the right...Cobras in the parking lot.

dtmaso · #5 (**permalink**) 09-01-2002, 10:44 PM

... Guess I'm just 'Bitten'

Mulv · #6 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 10:15 AM

Greetings..

You should be able to buy a used SPF for somewhere between 40 and 50K max. I bought mine at a car lot in Los Gatos for 45K with a 427 FE engine (1963) and a TKO transmission.....

regards
Steve

Randy Rosenberg · #7 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 01:14 PM

Welcome Steve!

To get a fairly good idea about the "price" of a used SPF, go read thru the SPF's for sale on Cobra Country...

Then add $x for an SPF prepared by Craig. Craig adds many "extras" that no other "SPF finisher" does...

Then add the "percentage" that Kassabian puts on top for "sales commission", and you may find that $55k doesn't seem radically unreasonable - of course, everything's negotiable

WRT to Jud's estimate that he could put you in a new SPF for $3k less, I suggestion that you compare an SPF prepared by different "SPF finishers" as well as the list of "stuff" that estimate includes, so that you're comparing "apples to apples". Breakfast on Saturday is an excellent opportunity to do just that.

Have Fun,
Randy R...

Allan A · #8 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 01:28 PM

I thought the car had sold, I know a couple of people who have purchased cars from Kassabians (not sure of spelling). They take offers so if it is still there go for it. Happy with SPF #303!

dtmaso · #9 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 06:24 PM

Thank you Curtis, Steve, Randy, Lew...

Yes, I believe the car at Kassabians was in the process of being 'leased' by some lucky party when I last spoke to them - so it's probably gone by now (9/3/02). I was told that another unknown brand had just come in but was not yet officially in their inventory.

When I spoke to Dynamic MotorSports they mentioned that they were no longer 'referring' SPF buyers to Craig because, though his work was beyond reproach, he was pricey. This probably is explained by all the extras added to cars he prepares. Who else local has a good history working on these?

I'll eventually be calling Craig to make a consultation appointment. I plan on gathering as much information as possible before buying. I need to be able to make an informed decision as to what my needs are and what features the car should have based on those needs. That can only be done with the help of owners and club members such as yourselves. I appreciate ANY and ALL input and responses to questions I post. I will continue to paruse this and other sites, and I plan on attending the next MiniNats with my own car in 2003.

Breakfast on an upcoming Saturday is certain, unfortunately it won't be for several weeks because of work scheduling.

Thanks,

Steve

Lew the taxman · #10 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 08:16 PM

Steve..
If you wouldn't mine having your engine & trany intalled in Reno. You should check 'The Intrepid Motorcar Co'. See my replay SPF almost here
Lew

Great Asp · #11 (**permalink**) 09-03-2002, 09:45 PM

Steve,

Dynamic has refered me to Top of the Hill (Craig) on two differrent occasions to buy items from him. I found his knowledge and equipment to be "right on" everytime. Might have been more expensive, but what the heck. I did not have to go looking for the right thing, Craig had it, and had it based on trial and error on his part. the equipment was "exactly" what I wanted, what he said it would be, and worked perfect. I'll pay a little more for that. I don't think they would "shoou" away business for Craig.

I sometimes catch myself telling someone what they "should" get as an option on their new SPF, then I remember. You could easy add options to these until one of the following happens
1. you go on option over load and can't buy the car
2. you decide not to buy the car as you "need" 10 grand in options

Buy the car, drive the car, option away! Meet Craig. He is a lot like a SPF. You are paying the right amount, to get the right amount.

Eric ak Great Asp

dtmaso · #12 (**permalink**) 09-04-2002, 05:07 AM

Well, Lew,

That's one more option to investigate. Congratulations on just receiving 1422, hope you're driving it before too long.

Tell us more about the engine - it's not as common a selection as some - why that one?

PHOTOS PLEASE!!

Steve

Mulv · #13 (**permalink**) 09-04-2002, 08:36 AM

If you don't mind having someone overcharge you by at least double and in the process be phenominally rude and arrogant, please go see Craig Hill. It is an experience to remember so that you won't be tempted to repeat it....... Kind of like dealing with a combination English boarding school bully, P.T. Barnum and carnival huckster all at once.. I will ship my car back to South Africa for repair before I would go back there. Just as a final insult, they overtightened my oil temperature guage at the fitting so it broke before they returned the car . This during the first and last time they serviced it.....

regards

Steve

cobrap51d · #14 (**permalink**) 09-07-2002, 10:45 AM

Steve (Mulv),
I just returned from Craigs shop. I had an exact opposite experience.

From the little time I spent with Craig I gained respect and confidence in his ability to assist me in maintaining my car. I suspect there may be a day that I have to call Craig about something that fell through the cracks. This is business.

You might want to try calling Craig to give him the opportunity to fix what ever problems you may have. Craig is not only a Mechaninc and Family man he also has a business to run.

I'm an extremly difficult person to please. I'm also very quick to cut off my nose to spite my face. Knowing this of myself and seeing your posting makes me an expert in this area.

You may want to reconsider your approach by re-intorducing youself to Craig and attempting to work through any business issues you have to resolve.

terry lee · #15 (**permalink**) 09-07-2002, 12:14 PM

NEW or USED
Well guys, here's my take on the whole situation. Back in April I started looking for a preowned Cobra. It didn't take me long to figure out that the SPF was the best buy for the money. I seriously considered stepping up for a new Shelby CSX, but after some serious price comparisons and value for value I decided a SFP was for me. Now, try to find the right one; color, engine, mileage, condition, and location were just afew of my priorities. I found several; but problems with all. One got sold before I got a chance to even look at it, one had serious title problems (big block 514ci /560hp, 1700 miles, hardtop) for $30K (I thought a good buy), next came Dan Semko's Lazer Red SB, (everything was right, except that my wife's [she thinks] street rod is almost the same color), then I found the perfect car, I didn't want the hardtop and seller was pretty solid on price. The bottom line is for acouple of thousand dollars more, I ordered a brand new SFP manufactured to my specs. Sure I'm waiting, but set delivery to match my birthday in February. I am currently trying to secure the right FE engine and in the process have learned more than I ever imagined was possible, to say nothing about all the great people here on CC.
Yesterday I learned about the new 427 alum SB that RDI is building, and that has really perked my attention. New car, new engine design and tech, less weight up front, high RPM's, to say nothing about parts availability. This seems to make some sence to me right now. I haven't given up on the FE yet. I'm waiting to see how much $$$.
There is a thread here at CC about reduced prices on Cobras you should look at. I haven't seen a real drop in SPF's. However, there is a Indigo Blue with Titanium strips listed on Cobra Country that looks like it might be worth your time to look at. SB, but big cubes, big hp, and low mileage. Also, John Anderson (aka, GUMBALL) has just listed his CSX with 427 alum. engine. Check it out at Cobra Country.
The choice is yours, but at least you made the same decision as most of us, that Cobras are where it's at.
I too had a Pantera, 71, red, way back in 1972.
Good Luck,
Terry Lee