Cobras, RIP?

[Tom T.]

I don't know many of you except by your posts, but still consider most of you to be friends, people I'd rather not see maimed (or worse) in a Cobra mishap. What happened to Lew the Taxman is sadly reminiscent of a number of stories I heard as a teenage car nut back in the 60's. We are all very lucky that he did not meet the same fate as the club member who was drag racing a few months ago. Most of you will recall the story about how the guys at Shelby back in the early days used to make bets on how long it would be before a 427 Cobra would come back in a crumpled heap, to be rebuilt if possible. Dark humor, indeed, but prophetic. You'll also recall that a fair number of racers met their end in those days, not surprising in view of the primitive safety equipment available to them.

My own story is that I sold my Contemporary largely because my wife was concerned that I was starting to go fast enough that a mistake, or mechanical failure, could have very serious implications. Yes, as in Lew's car, the roll bar was securely fastened, and I expect it would have held in a roll over. Realistically, however, there is little else to save you in these cars. Quoting in part from the waiver I required the buyer of my car to sign: "Vehicle is not a modern automobile and does not comply with or otherwise conform to state or federal laws and regulations, and contemporary standards of, automotive design and manufacture, including, without limitation, driver and passenger safety. Some examples of design and safety features Vehicle does not have include, without any limitation whatsoever: frontal and rear impact protection in the form of engineered collapsible and/or crumple zones, anti-intrusion steering column, anti-intrusion side impact door beams, supplemental restraint systems of any sort, including air bags, an inertia mechanism as a part of seat belt restraints, rollover protection for passenger, rollover protection for driver in conformance with the aforesaid laws, regulations, and contemporary standards, and any and all other safety features generally found in modern automobiles."
And that, my friends, is fact.

In my view, I'll never have skills or reflexes close to those professional drivers who have lost their lives; I daresay the same is true for most of you. Randy Klein, a gentleman whose intellect and abilities far exceed mine, gets it. The guy who stole his beloved Mariah didn't live more than a few minutes. Every time he hears of yet another serious incident, the pain and anguish revisits him, and he reaches out to all of us and begs us to pay attention.

It took a load off of my misplaced middle-aged macho-pretender mind when my wife told me how worried she was becoming. In truth, I had become increasingly concerned the faster I went. Yes, you can get yourself killed in just about any car. But the Cobra is particularly unforgiving.

For myself, I've made the commitment that when I get the next Cobra, GT40, or Coupe, it will have a full cage. I won't care whether people think the cage ruins the lines of the Cobra, in particular. I won't care at all.

Let's not give the insurance companies and tort lawyers any more ammunition to take our hobby away from us.

Please, be safe.

TT

[RACER X #99]

Tom,
All good points and that is why I restrict my High speed driving to the realitive safety of the racetrack. NJ has the most crowded highways in the US with a large percentage of drivers not reading english. We also have a large population of relocated city people who just started driving at the age of 40. We got lots of inexperienced and illerate drivers on our highways but on the racetrack most at least know which direction they should be going.
Not trying to make light of your suggestion of full cages for track cars but I beleive driver education is even more important. It seems the the uneducated driver no matter what type of car or how full safety prepared the car might be, just can't go barreling thru the corners at full tilt with out knowing the limits of the car.
The best Pro drivers in the world with the best cars know that all corners cannot be taken flat out. They know the limits and drive them right at the limit.Drivers get to know the limits by starting out slow and building up to them. Those who chose to go racing without learning their limits can and do wind up in bad crashes.

Lots of groups offering good instruction post/advertise here and newbies should contact and utilize their services.

RD

[Mulv]

Tom

I completely agree that these cars are not at all suited to a race track. It is not just the lack of protection that causes one concern, but the intrinsic evil handling nature of the cars due to the basic configuration. You can still be seriously injured in a car with a full cage, and in fact it is more dangerous to have one in the car on the street unless you are prepared to wear a helmet at all times. Racer X, you just don't get it or are not skilled enough to drive a car at speeds high enough to see the true nature of the Cobra . If you were you would recognize how bad these cars handle and would have more respect than just thinking your training will save you. Perhaps you do not know anyone who has been killed racing...
I have taken maybe 15 laps on various tracks in my car and I did not enjoy it at all, in fact I was frightened at Sears and thought I was going to hit the wall on the main straight. I go faster at Sears in my Civic race car and certainly flew around in the Camaros and Mustangs I have run there. My 120 hp Civic laps Thunderhill faster than the Factory Five spec racers, a good indication of the relative handling. I held an ASN FIA International 'B' license for years and drove in endurance races for 10 years all over the continent, so it is not like I have never been on the track. In fact I am driving in the Thunderhill 25 hour race this weekend and am tied with another BACC member for the class championship. We both use Hondas at the track.... I suggest that anyone who tracks these cars does what Spec Miata in SCCA mandates - get the hardtop and bolt it on if it is an SPF, put in a cage, wear arm restraints and use a window net. You will still wreck the thing when you try to catch a BMW, but at least you will survive with minor injuries...
We have had at least 4 SPF cars totalled and one wrecked and repaired in the last year or so in our group. I am sure all the members join me in asking everyone to cool it for a while as we will not be able to insure these things if this keeps up due to number registered vs losses at the insurance companies. Tom can comment as his wife works with my agent.....

Oh, and no cage? Here is a shot of Lew at the track he is number 311 - notice his helmet relative to the windshield and roll bar? Mine is the same..

http://www.ncracing.org/members-300.html


Steve

[Tom T.]

Steve,

I appreciate Cranky's comments, as well as yours. I don't think he was trying to say that good driving alone is necessarily enough, I believe he was sincerely just trying to point out that it's critical that our skills are up to snuff on track. Certainly, even in a Cobra, a more careful, better driver has a better chance. From all accounts, the Crankster is a very good driver, as are you, and in my experience, he almost always has everyone's best interests at heart.

TT

[Chaplin]

Not to hi-jack this thread b/c I think both Tom and Cranky made very good points that I agree with, but how is the insurance issue implicated? It was my understanding that most, if not all, insurance policies expressly provide that the policy does not apply to any racing or track events and, therefore, the insurance co. does not have to cover any losses incurred on a track (at least my policy provides such). From a mere insurance perspective, wouldn't it be better for the masses if everyone cracked their car up on the track, where the insurance cos. are under no obligation to pay, rather than on the street, where insurance cos. have to pay?

[RACER X #99]

Steve,
Thanks for pointing out my fear and lack of skills in driving a Cobra I think the students that I have instructed over the past three years would disagree with you.
While you may be a proficient race driver sometimes racers make the worst teachers.

BTW, Lots of plenty fast cars where I instruct, Watkins Glen, Pocono, including Cup cars, BMW's and all kinds of Vettes some get by me in my Cobra, most don't.
Next time you go bashing somebody, do a little research.

RD

[Tom T.]

Chaplin,

You make a valid point. However, people still sometimes make claims against their policies in these situations, and some policies remain ambiguous in this area, at least as to driver's ed/open track (generally not racing). Also, some tracks are beginning to ban single hoop roadsters, as previously reported by Roger. Their concerns are essentially liability-driven (i.e., their insurers are always looking over their shoulders).

TT

[Mulv]

Tom And Cranky

Gee , I didn't mean to be rude, I am just pointing out that no amount of training will save you if you wreck one of these things. Perhaps my speed comment should be re-thought, I didn't mean to imply a lack of laps.... There are a lot of Walter Mitty types at open tracks. Bear in mind that Lew was not racing, just open tracking...

At least RX has a decent roll bar, but I still wouldn't go on the track in one of these things.... a roof is a very good thing.

Chaplin... you are correct about the payout, but a lot of these cars are wrecked on the street, 3 of them in the Bay Area during the last year.... it is going to be tough to insure these things soon....

Steve

[Excaliber]

There are lots of "race cars" that have an open top and high horse power.

If YOU choose to stay off the track or run a different car, I understand.

I choose to run a Cobra. There is no doubt I would "push it harder" IF I had a roll cage AND I wasn't worried about the repair costs.

Drive responsibly is the key element here and accept the risk if you want to race a convertible with minimal protection. I haven't seen ANY Miatas at the local track here with a "hard top", most have only a roll bar (some, single hoops).

Recently a guy rolled his Honda at the track. It doesn't take BIG horse power OR high speed to crash on the track (or on the street). I think of the Cobra as a "motor cycle", they don't have a roll cage either!

Ernie

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Steve is right.
Insurance killed off the muscle car and if the perception is that cobra's are unsafe or too high HP then that will spell the end of our cars. I race ocasionally at NHRA events and have a 6 point rollbar,arm restraints,jacket,gloves,etc,etc... My question is;
How come road race tracks allow open cars to even go out on the track without the simple safety gear that NHRA mandates? I would think that they should require more safety equipment as they are out racing for much longer periods. It costs $1500 to rent the dragstrip for an event, most of that goes for track INSURANCE, so what does the roadrace tracks do for insurance?
Perry.

[Chaplin]

Another question:

What's the difference between "racing" and "open tracking"? Is it merely the presence of other cars on the track with you (racing) or lack thereof (open tracking)?

[Excaliber]

When we have an "open track" event here it is NOT "racing". How and WHO are allowed to run at an "open track" event varies depending on who set it up.

Sometimes it is "invitation" only, this is generally when the guys are pretty serious and the cars are pretty fast! Passing allowed ONLY on the straight (and we all know each other)!

Other "open track" events are more for the "street cars". The "big dogs" don't run on the track at the same time. Passing is NOT allowed.

Some events (like when the Honda rolled) are "race" events. It's door to door and they DO trade paint occasionally. You got to have a license or be "invited" in order to "race".

Ernie

[RACER X #99]

Chaplin,
Most Open track events are combined with a school event. This Link to the PCA site explains a lot. I wish all newbies would read this.


http://www.pca-msr.org/drman.html

RD

[casaleenie]

Someone bring me up to speed in regards to Lew the Taxman...

[Tom T.]

Al,

There's a BAAC thread entitled "SPF crash at Thunderhill," with the information. He's one of our own out here.

TT

[CSX 4039]

In that picture, car #332- Mr. Straub drives a convertible Boxer with no roll bar at all. A more stable vehicle, to be sure, but.....?!
What about motorcycles? What about obese smokers with high stress jobs? With racing a Cobra, early death is a possibility, with obese smokers with high stress jobs, it is a near certainty. In my profession, we keep score of such things.
I agree with what you say, however. People rarely value their good health, until they have something to compare it with.

Brett J. Bolte, M.D.
former director of hospital trauma rehabilitation dept.

[SPF604]

RX, Your link is to good information. NOT just for newbies. Everyboday should read this, as a reminder at least.

[Hal Copple]

our community had a terrible accident this weekend, with horrible and permanent injury to one of our beloved young physicians, a roll-over on an interstate. Then, another, an attorney, was killed while also traveling in another state. And this am, nearby, a 16 year old girl, speeding home from school, overran a corner, with fatal consequences. These sad things happen every day, everywhere. As for me, i do open track my SPF, drag race occasionally, but i wear a full suit, arm restraints, have a higher, full width rollbar, fire system, etc. I don't push some corners, the one's i feel are more dangerous. I drive it on the street like it was a motorcyle, staying away from everybody the best i can. My son and i are in the process of setting his Boxster up for track use, too. Extra rollbar, etc. We need to explore, realtively safely, the limits of his Porsche.

I am exceedingly cautious out there, track or street. But if someone decides to pull out in front of me, or rear-end me, i can't do much about it. I take every possible precaution, but i still go out into the world every day.

I have survived a number of close calls in my life, so i guess my number isn't up yet.

[John S Peterson]

Steve.

I will also be at Thunderhill this weekend for the enduro, but this time as one of the gasmen... We will be running the only Ledgends car I believe is entered. Sure had fun at the 12 hour, unfortunatly broke a crankshaft at about hour 8. Look forward to possibly meeting you this weekend.

John

[coyled]

I hope that Lew recovers. Does anybody know what happend? Did he lift, brake, or just carry to much speed and go off? Or, did something break? We don't know anything at this point. In looking at his cobra, it looks like a stock seat and a stock roll bar. I beleive with a stock roll bar in an spf, your head would still hit in a roll over. Without a high back race seat, your head would be moving around quite a bit. Most of these accidents occur on the street not the track. I agree with cranky in that if you have a cobra, you need to be educated. I have a taller hoop, forward brace and side impact bars, but, I am considering some upgrades just in case. Maybe some pictures of upgraded safety ideas in a cobra would be a good idea. Scott