Cobras, RIP?

[Excaliber]

I think the word "fear" is OK to use in referrence to being safe.

OK, maybe "healthy respect" is better?

The point, at least by me, is well taken! You better have some serious respect for what these cars can do. Never forget it.

Ernie

I recall a few times when I was glad the MG finally DID break down. It gave me an excuse to get out and stretch my legs and a chance to hone my skills on Lucas wiring.

[speedraser]

Coyled,

You wrote, "The cobra gets sideways in an off camber or downhill section, the tires bite, and you roll."

Do you mean that you've seen (or know of) Cobras that rolled while remaining on the pavement and without tripping over something like a curb? I would've thought that a Cobra would not roll unless it tripped over something, such as a curb or a ditch, or if it dug into loose ground like a gravel trap or sand.

I don't have a Cobra yet, but I've owned my Morgan for 16 years and I've been involved with the Morgan clubs for 20 years. I don't know of a Morgan that ever rolled, on the road or the track, without tripping over something.

BTW, my Morgan has been quite reliable, even though it's British.

[Excaliber]

The guy that rolled his Honda at the track recently locked up the rear coming into a corner. When the rear end came around the tires "bit" on something and he flipped the car!

Ernie

[SCOBRAC]

My Cobra is, aside from a boyhood dream ( I was born in 1966), a replacement for a 1000cc sport bike I had to sell when I bought a house in 1996.

It was fast, 150 mph, 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and ran 1760 feet in under 12 seconds... It was potentially dangerous. 75% of all these bikes were crashed in the first 24 months they were on the road. I look at the car the same way I looked at that bike, with a sliver of fear, a good deal of respect and a certain amount of caution. I look at my car the same way, except the car is more dangerous from the standpoint that it draws a good deal more attention than any bike ever could. Good and bad.

Fortunately I lived out most of my speed racer fantasies in my youth. Yes. I street raced, I raced trains, I evaded the cops in high speed pursuits, went 120 mph in the fog with 1000 feet visability. (120 fps gives you less than 10 seconds to react). God only knows why I am not dead and nobody got hurt. I think it was in large part luck, small part skill and perhaps the ignorance of youth.

Even still this car scares me. But not enough to sell it. Samuel Clemmons once defined courage, not as the absence of fear but what you do with it... If you aren't of afraid of a car that essentially trumps a Busch series (and some Nextel Series Cup.. Yes Nextel) car, with 1500 additional pounds of steel and a full cage you are a fool.

The list of dead drives is long and distinguished who bounced checks the cars they were driving, or the tracks they were racing on couldn't cash. Two of my biggest heros come to mind, Ken Miles and Derek Bell. It might be as simple as a bird strike, a rock or debris cutting a tire. I was once nearly killed by a bumble bee...

At 100 mph on my Ninja I was going through the Napa Valley. Helmet on, visor down except for a 3/4" gap to get some air. I saw it coming, got ready for the strike lowered my head a little (it was going to make a huge splat on my helmet) It hit me square on the cheek and exploded on my face. Now this was a bumble bee, the big fat black and yellow kind. It almost couldn't fit in the gap in my visor, but it did. Had I not seen it I would have fallen off the bike. With a closing speed of 120 mph the bee strike felt like I had been hit in the face by a 2x4.

I think my point is it can happen anyplace, at any time. It has happened to better drivers to us and will happen again. Be prepared to react. Have a plan. know how much throttle it takes to induce oversteer. Practice at 25 or 35 miles an hour on a deserted street or better yet private property. Know the limits of adhesion on the tires you drive, know what it feels like when they are slipping, because the are whether you know it or feel it.

Be safe,

[SCOBRAC]

I would like to point out Dale Earnhardt died in a relatively slow speed crash and had a cage. Sometimes your number is simply up.

[BMK]

Hi all

My neighbour hit the ground very after being hit in the face by a small bird.

Hell its dangerous out there.

Cheers

Bernie

Bernie Knight
Mt. Gambier South Australia

[RallySnake]

Bernie,

I really do like to learn from other peoples' mistakes. But, I didn't understand your post. Was your friend in a Cobra? Is he OK?

My wife is an RN in a large hospital. Some of the stories she tells about young people dying for various reasons make it clear to me that you better live life to the fullest while you can.

My Cobra is more than a car to me. It's also a great hobby. But it also is a walk on the "wild side". I may be a bit too old to compete in Karate sparring or paintball combat games these days. But I'm not too old to run against competitors of ANY age in car rallies. I highly recommend it.

Paul

[Tom T.]

Much of what I've read about Dale Earnhardt's in-car set-up (belt anchoring, helmet, etc.) indicates he'd been tempting fate for a long time. Sometimes the difference between your number being up and not is whether you've taken the right precautions.

TT

[Eljaro]

The first time I went to England to see my finished Contemporary Cobra and took the first ride in it I was engulfed in fear.
Oh my Good, this is a dangerous car, I said to myself.
The incredible noise from the exhaust, the hard to use unassisted brakes, the seating position, the unassisted slow steering, the limited turning radius, the hot exhaust pipes burning my legs, etc..

I have the Cobra 8 years now, and would not give it away for anything.
By now I have corrected some of the mayor defects and the car feels "safe".
I like the growling of the engine, the sound of the exhaust, the very direct steering, the hard brakes and of course the incredible acceleration. I would say this is a very "Macho" car, which makes you feel sooo good !!!

It is so much different from any other car with all their safety measures and confortable ride. I have one of those for everyday driving.

After 8 years owning it I know the car very well, I go fast with it, especially when cornering (roadholding is incredibly good), and I know perfectly the limits of the Cobra, which I regularly reach but never exceed.

My wife prefers me taking a ride in the Cobra than in the Ferrari. With a Ferrari the limits are much higher, the speeds also and the possible consequences in case of an accident more severe. Despite all the modern safety measures .
You can not judge a Cobra by the same parameters as you do any other car. Driving a Cobra is a Sport activity, like parachuting or rafting or flying. There is allways a risk that something can go wrong. But you have to live with it .

So if you want to go fast and be relatively safe you better get yourself a car other than a Cobra.

[coyled]

Tom, I agree with you in that you can do some things to help control your destiny. Dale E as an example had an open face helmet. He also would sometimes loosen his lap belt during cautions. He also ran a different seat sometimes than what you would expect for this level of racing. It could have been just his number being up or any combination of things that caused his death. The more prepared we are, the better off we'll be. Scott

[Buzz]

Very well said, Eljaro. Anyone who owns a Cobra ought to know that it is no ordinary automobile and thus cannot in many ways be sensibly compared using the same points of references as as one would use when evaluating a Lexus against an Infinity. Here is a quote from an article written by Tony Hogg, automotive journalist and Cobra owner:
"There is nothing particularly treacherous about the car's basic handling qualities, because it is strictly a neutral machine as far as oversteer and understeer are concerned. However the whole question is somewhat academic because if you are feathering it through an 80-mph bend and start sticking your foot in it, you know what happens when 480 lb-ft or a multiple thereof hits the rear wheels, and it doesn't really matter what gear you are in. ...it's all too easy to activate a few more barrels than you actually need. When I wrote my impression of the Allard I described it as possibly the most dangerous car I had ever driven, but I think the Cobra surpasses it. The trouble with the Allard lay in its split front axle, which could virtually give you oversteer and understeer in the same breath because the transition was instantaneous. THE TROUBLE WITH THE COBRA IS SIMPLY ITS POWER, WHICH IS NO FAULT AT ALL - IT'S JUST THAT THERE IS A TEMPTATION TO USE IT."

I have to agree - I have owned and driven a variety of fast cars in a variety of climates and conditions. I will go out on a limb and disagree with the Cobra bashers by saying that I like the Cobra's handling a lot. It has loads of lateral grip, minimal body roll, good brakes and the ride is not that bad for a sports car! Granted it has a high power to weight ratio in a short wheelbase - but I know that and I expect it to behave accordingly; just as I know that a motorcycle by its inherent nature has a natural tendency to fall over on its side. I prefer the responsiveness, the direct feel and the predictable tossability of my Cobra over the understeering, distant, almost artificial feel of a friend's Mitsu Evo VI at speed anyday.
As far as the Cobra's suscebtibility to flipping, it shouldn't be at all given that it is a car with a relatively low center of gravity. I have spun and braked and swerved and powerslid my car endlessly on a large, sticky concrete apron with no unexpected consequence other than worn tires and the accompanying tire smoke. The car handles fine for what it is just as a good mountain bike handles fine for its purpose but is vastly different from a road bike.
Does a Cobra offer less protection in a rollover than a modern, cage-equipped hardtop coupe? Anyone even looking at a Cobra can figure that out. So does a motorcycle or a go kart or any vintage roadster. Love the Cobra for what it is or don't love it at all. If what it isn't compared to an M3 or a Carerra bothers you then you probably are not cut out for Cobra ownership and maybe you should spend your money accordingly (if you want to be happy with what you drive, that is).
All in good fun.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Tom,
Yes Dale E had some safety equipment issues, however the main cause for that accident was that he was 'blocking' for Dale jr. I guess that's his right, but then he paid the price for it.
Perry.

[Randy Klein]

This whole thread is something that should be included in a must-read-and-understand-booklet before anyone is able to get behind the wheel of a Cobra.

I thank Tom T.(RIP) for posting it and for all of you who took the time to respond and offer your own deep feelings on this topic.

I'm not sure why, but I often look for the foundation or moral of the deeper discussions that plunk my magic twanger.

This one I am filing under the heading
"Be smart, take care, be safe, ---use a roll cage if you race."

I'm gonna borrow some of this discussion for a paper that I want to write on Cobra Safety.

If there is anyone else out there who has some wisdom to pass on that I can use in that paper, please offer it here, or send an email to me.


All the best,

[SCOBRAC]

ttt

[badrich]

Over the past year and a half I have read some great posts and have learned a lot. But this thread is simply the best. I am sorry I never got to know Tom T; he added a lot of valuable insight here. I certainly agree with Randy, that all prospective Cobra owners and newbies read every bit of this invaluable information before you jump in for your first drive in any Snake.

Even before I decided to join this group of Wild Ones, I knew that driving my Beast at high speeds was something I was going to have to grow into. I'm having fun just tooling around; the twisty roads in the beautiful Santa Cruz mountains are Big Fun. But next weekend I am going to run my first autocross in this car (on my BF Goodrich T/As) and am going to learn how to drive it spiritidly. [Is that a word?] At least at lower speeds. I hope to have Hoosier A3S04s for my next event, but since I use the T/As on the street, I feel I need to find out their limits (but not on a freeway offramp). I won't be a candidate for TTOD, but I do expect to have a good time. I may have some street tires for sale the following day. Some day I may decide to do some track work, but only after I have really learned to drive this thing well under safer circumstances. I expect to have a big smile on my face after my first day of autocrossing. Wish me luck! Rich

[Art Burtt]

I think that the Cobra deserves the same respect that say a motorcycle reqiures. I drive my Vette fast on occasion and I am not afraid of it. My Cobra on the other hand scares the hell out of me which is probably a good thing. I never plan to race mine but if I did I sure would make some changes such as a full roll cage
and any other safety devices available.

[RallySnake]

Dave,

Looks like you're having a great time. Thanks for sharing the picture. Did you take any video? Your car is leaning pretty hard, do you run sway bars?

Nice color scheme you have there, too.

aul