top of the hill performance is it a good shop?

[madd matty]

i left my spf there for springs brakes and a new 418 win. a little steep price wise . what should i expect performance wise . Sure hope it turns out ok . any one gone there? two months still no cobra.

[Got the Bug]

madd matty,

I know that Randy Rosenberg and Spur408 (Lane) both have SPFs and have had work done by Top of the Hill. I think Craig Hill did the install work on Randy's car and rebuilt Lane's 408. They both seem to be satisfied with the quality of the work. I'm sure they'll weigh in if they see this thread.

BTW - Did you recently purchase an SPF?

[madd matty]

yes about four months ago. with an old 351w . this is my second spf

[RodKnock]

Do you drop by every so often to check on things? Two months for engine is certainly not unheard of.

I haven't heard any bad things about TOP.

[Tony Ripepi]

Hi Matty,

I've known Craig for 10 + years from where he is now in Livermore and his old shop in Pleasanton. Craig was an SPF dealer and built a lot of cars for many people here in the Bay Area. He does good work but, can be expensive. I would recommend regular stops to review progress and be explicit as to what you want done and getting a firm idea of the cost up front. When left to his own Craig will go to the extreme detail and $$$$$ which may come as a surprise when you are presented with the invoices for the work.

I'm sure some of the people that know him will also contribute additional information and opinions. I have done a lot of business with Criag but, there are other high quailty service providers that are more reasonable for their services.

You may want to drop into the Rock House for BACC breakfast any Saturday morning and talk to the group. There are many of the cars that Criag has built that drop in most Saturdays.

Here is a link to the BACC website for directions etc. :

http://www.bayareacobraclub.com/index.html

One Man's opinion,

Tony R.

[McDoo]

I have known Craig since the late 90's and my SPF 931 has had allot of work
done in his shop. Tony gives some good advice, know what you want up front
and he will easily meet or exceed your expectations. Craig thinks about details
way above the normal car fabricator and that shows in his personality which
can be difficult at times, so know what you want. His fabrication skills are second to no one in the industry which is why he is not inexpensive. He gets my recomendation 100%

McDoo Former owner of SPF931

[Mulv]

If my car was on fire and I was 5 feet from his door I wouldn't go there for help. He is a rude self important prick who lies to you about costs and details. The work is no better than average at best and it takes forever. I had an estimate of $1,100- from him and the bill was $5700-. Go there if you like, I would rather go to a moped dealer for my cars than that guy...

[csx wnab]

Originally Posted by madd matty

i left my spf there for springs brakes and a new 418 win. a little steep price wise . what should i expect performance wise . Sure hope it turns out ok . any one gone there? two months still no cobra.

good luck. but if you are happy with the cost...........(in the end), the time it took. and the "i'm better than thou attitude, then thats all that matters. that you are happy.

[madd matty]

Thanks for the pros and cons. The sun is out and i just want to drive. craig had said 590 hp was no sweat for his motor guy from a 408 wins, is this the gospel.

[csx wnab]

hope the wife has a policy out on you. she'll need it when craig hands you the bill. like i said good luck.

[ToTheMetal]

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...&pictureid=969

Friend's Superformance... Engine: 735 HP Lima 496 CI with the first FI of it's kind....Extreme detail...Extreme concern for safety.....this is what you get from Craig and his team.

He will someday put my CSX together. Nuff said.

[ou812545]

Matty,
As others have already said, If you know what you want you should be ok. Except for the price. You will soon learn that his "typical customers" allow him to do additional work without approval.

I went to Craig when I first purchased my car and I had a similar experience as MULV. He quoted me $700 and when I picked up my car the bill was about $1600. When I asked what extra $900 was for he told me I didn't fit his "typical customer" profile.

His ego and attitude is annoying and his work is ok (in my opinion). I have since had to repair a few things that he charged me for but was not able to fix. These cars are not rocket science and there are plenty of good engine builders and installers in the Bay Area to choose from.

As Tony mentioned, you should go to the Rock House for breakfast on a Saturday morning. You will meet a great group of guys with a lot of Cobra experience.

just my opinion..

[Spur408]

Madd Matt,

Top of the Hill did a great job for me, my car had some real issues and also the motor needed to be rebuilt after i saw it after tare down.
After rebuild, 351Windsor, Cu./In 408, 481 hp, 504 ft/lbs torque.
Since Dec 2008 i have put 4000 miles on the car, it runs like a Swiss Watch.
1 - Would i have Top of the Hill do a second car - ( Yes )

Spur408 - Lane

[Zoom This]

Originally Posted by Mulv

If my car was on fire and I was 5 feet from his door I wouldn't go there for help. He is a rude self important prick who lies to you about costs and details. The work is no better than average at best and it takes forever. I had an estimate of $1,100- from him and the bill was $5700-. Go there if you like, I would rather go to a moped dealer for my cars than that guy...

Hey Mulv, tell us how you really feel. I have had work done by Craig on my 418W, chassis and suspension etc. on more than one occasion. His work is good but his dealing with customers and his employees needs work. His bills are always higher than quoted and he has a belligerent way of talking down to his customers which is why I never went back to him while I was living in the Bay Area. He does know his cars however.

Bill....from the Great Northwest.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Well, there's not a lot more I can add...

Many have stated the pro's and con's of dealing with Craig. He really is second to none in the Bay Area for knowing his way around a Superformance, and when given a blank check, he does beautiful work. Just be prepared for amount of time he needs (two weeks turns into two months very quickly), and he's expensive.

I must admit that when I met Craig about 10 years ago, I knew very little about Cobra replicas and hot rodding, etc... He built both of my SPFs, and in the process I learned more about SPFs and hot rodding, etc... Now I perform my regular maintenance myself (oil changes, spark plugs, etc...), and I've used a local mechanic for those items which I determined were "too small" to take to Craig, and "too big" to handle myself. I have over 18k miles on my SPF (I couldn't drive for a couple of years, thanks to the CA-DMV, but that's a different story), and I've attended a dozen or so open-track events, and the SPF that Craig put together for me still keeps going and going and going.

Do I still use Craig to work on my SPF? Yes, when needed.

Do I recommend Craig? Yes, given that you know what you want and given that you've got time and money. His estimates are typically lower than the actual invoice (as others have stated), however I'm used to this, as he finds areas that need attention of which I'm not aware (I rarely put my SPF on lift and inspect it myself, and if I did, then I'm not sure I would spot the stuff he does).

Do I trust Craig? Absolutely! After my SPF has been to Craig for work, I know that it is in the safest possible condition - so safe that I've pushed my SPF hard on the open-track, with little fear that my SPF will fail me.

Are there others in the Bay Area who can perform quality work on an SPF? Yes, a handful of fairly new service providers are springing up and building their own reputations. Were they around 10 years ago, when I wanted an SPF? No.

Hope this helps,
Randy...

[PANAVIA]

Guys-- chiming in here as a performance shop owner at the Mustang Ranch. I have not met Craig in person, and this commentary is not meant to reflect personally on Craig or his organization, but - it is meant to educate and reflect in the circumstances under which one must operate in California in the year 2009.

1. parts: we as dealers on performance parts-- *do not get* the advantageous pricing that you might think we do,--- our costs for parts are about the same as many of the online vendors, if not higher.

The distributors quite frequently will quote us a wholesale price over the phone and then the item shows up at a higher price. This happens everywhere, not just a few vendors. wrong shipping and back orders are a problem and most vendors do not have a sense of urgency.

2. CA Costs: our beloved state of CA has so many costs and fees and licenses and expectations that I have a full time admin devoted to bookkeeping, and administration of governmental issues, this ranges from one of the 5 taxation entities ; CA Franchise Tax Board, County of Santa Clara Property tax , city of Santa Clara fire fees and tax, CA State BOE filings, not to mention Federal requirements. , EPA, and enforcement of some kind of code.

3. Employee issues , --good people can get and keep good jobs, but there is a bottom feeder component and sometimes you get a bottom feeder.--and they cost dearly in time, soft costs delays and repairs.

4. Banks; banks actively look for ways to delay our access to inbound funds and rip us off with service fees every month.

5. Shipping Costs : one national shipper I caught charging us a $20 week account maint fee. ($1040/yr)

6. Financing customer jobs, we have people who have us go 110% on a project , rack up a huge bill and then they dont see us for 4 to 6 weeks to pick it up. --this is few and far between but with no 30 day terms available from our vendors since the credit crunch, everything is from our perspective is cash management.

7.lack of warranty support from EVERYONE except SUMMIT AND ROUSH . ---every single other vendor has let us down or has declined to honor most all warranty regarding parts , including pistons being shipped wrong, cranks etc, and these are national suppliers.

We have ended up purchasing items from larger national distribution vendors at a higher cost, just so we can be assured that we can be protected in case of a warranty issue.

8. Flat tappet cams and modern oil : all of our flat tappet engine rebuilds are now sold with 0mi warranty as we cannot control the oil supply. -- this is a problem for consumers as they believe that oil is better now and not worse. we have ended up self insuring several flat tappet cams due to lack of ZDDP. now that we are a ZDDP distributor and I found some information for consumers --this is getting better.

9. Land Costs: in they year 2009, you still need to pay the landord. and he is not cheap.

10. it is expensive to offer a professional services in the Bay Area !

--so before you are having an issue with how expensive a shop is, think of what they have to go through and stay open and make sure you are provided a top notch product. --

vintage and race cars, as well as replicas and restorations are best when you have some artistic freedom , this is closer to the entertainment business and the R&D business than it is to the traditional automotive business.

Sorry for the rant, but -- this one hit a cord.

if the only thing you can come up with is time and it was a little expensive then i would say that was a pretty good shop.

if our co-vendors had a sense of urgency, we would all be lot better off.

--Steve

[boblyon1]

When the Southern Automotive 351W on my SPF went "belly up" last summer I called three different performance mechanics in the North Bay and each told me the best rebuilder here was Jerry White at JNW Engine and Machine. He is a 3rd generation performance engine rebuilder who has every conceivable machine. I have often found him refinshing heads for race cars. He is not cheap but I've never been overbilled. He will call if he discovers an issue that could lead to more expense.

Recently he replaced my left axle with a complete unit he ordered from Hillbank. Well, whoever supplied Hillbank had not left enough slack in the CV boot when the clamps were put on and the inside clamp was pulled loose by flexing. Jerry repaired it w/o charge saying it should not be my problem. A friend here in NB recently used Jerry on his engine rebuild and was pleased with the result. I'm not recruiting business for him but just want folks to know there are other top-notch rebuilders available.

[tcrist]

I have known Craig for a few years. While I have never had him do work on my Cobra, A friend of mine will not let anyone other that Craig work on his Cobra or his GT350.

When I talked to Craig about building a motor for mine, the one thing that he said himself is the he is not cheap but you get what you pay for.

Craig is a straight to the point person. Some times it seems like he is talking down to you but you have to know Craig to know that he is not. That is just Craig.

As far as when you pick up your work and the bill is higher than quoted or authorized. To me, that would not be acceptable. You just need to be sure and tell him that any and all work that goes past the quoted price needs to be approved.

Of course that goes with any work being done anywhere.

Terry