Keep them guessing

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by scottj

Yates isn't the end-all when it comes to heads. There are much more powerful heads than the D-3, specifically, the 9 deg Billet Ford head and the 9 deg billet Chevy head... like 40 hp more than the D-3. You won't find them in NASCAR though... gotta call Don.

Yates was just an example Scott. What are rough flow numbers on the heads you mention? Mid 400cfm at .900"?

[scottj]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Yates was just an example Scott. What are rough flow numbers on the heads you mention? Mid 400cfm at .900"?

I know... but it's not often anyone comes over to my house (Bowtie forum) to play... I'm gonna get in on the fun even if I have to make sheet up

Here's the numbers on the Ford Billet in SC-1, D-3, & 9 degree configurations:



Here's the 9 Degree Chevy numbers:



It should be noted that the Billet Chevy head retains the simplicity of a inline-valve design while outperforming the canted-valve D-3 and SC-1 designs

[Lightingrod]

Dang, I'm going to throw away my little AFR 210's! They only flow around 310/220 @.600", which is about the same as the Edelbrock Oval ports on the BBC 468!

I had the parts on hand to get 600+ hp out of this 388. But for the street I couldn't see twisting it to 6,800-7,000 rpm, .630" lift cam or 12.5-1 compression. I did an even swap of the Victor intake and the Ultradyne custom ground cam for an Edelbrock RPM and a AR-280 comp cam! A real broad torque curve and makes good power to about 6,200! Good fun on the street!

[Hotfingrs]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Thank you Jack.
So how did you build 2HP/CI?

Actually Chas, I only have around 1.7 horse/CI

The engine is a 450 inch SBC. Tall deck Dart block, Dart 15* heads, Ohio Crank rotating assembly. Dart intake with Pro-Systems carb flowing 1000cfm+

Cam is Lunati .736 lift Intake .696 lift Exhaust
290@.050 300@.050
Advertised duration 328 338
Cam also has 4-7 firing order swap Lobe seperation 106
Springs are 210 closed 605 open
Crower roller lifters and T&D rocker assembly
Lunati says this is a 410 sprint car cam, but the extra inches help tone it down a bit.
Also running an MSD box and an E-Curve distributor
If I remember correctly this combo can be bored and stroked to 482 inches.

I limit RPM to 7500 on the street and 8000 at the strip. Also a 4000 RPM stall converter

Because the oil pan rails are wider than stock, I had to have Moroso build a custom 9qt pan. Since this is basically a racing block the only oil pans would have hung to low for the Cobra. I think pan is 7 inches rail to bottom of pan and 13 or 14 inches side to side, with 5 trap doors.

The reson I went with the tall deck, I wanted to run a taller piston so I could get the oil land above the wrist pin. I've always had an oil control problem with short pistons, not to mention piston rock when the skirt comes out of the hole.

[john chesnut]

I scratch built my Cobra tribute using all C5 Corvette suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, and LS6 (stock) engine). I bolted the engine to a T56 6speed tranny. Converted the C5 diff from a transaxle into accepting a driveshaft. Narrowed the suspension to fit the Cobra width. Custom steering rack and axles to make this work.

I ran the car at Run n Gun in 2008. I started it up for the first time at the track and won the street class for the road course. I think I won the autocross as well. To old to remember. I have only been on a race track 5 times. Four times at Run n Gun.

Car ran 11.9 on street tires (me being easy on it) and gets 30 plus MPG. Not a real Cobra but very fun to drive. The handling is fantastic.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by Lightingrod

Dang, I'm going to throw away my little AFR 210's! They only flow around 310/220 @.600", which is about the same as the Edelbrock Oval ports on the BBC 468!

I had the parts on hand to get 600+ hp out of this 388. But for the street I couldn't see twisting it to 6,800-7,000 rpm, .630" lift cam or 12.5-1 compression. I did an even swap of the Victor intake and the Ultradyne custom ground cam for an Edelbrock RPM and a AR-280 comp cam! A real broad torque curve and makes good power to about 6,200! Good fun on the street!

Nothing wrong with the AFR 210, had them on my first pump gas street 434... 10:1, 264/272@.050, .660 lift, solid roller, Super Victor... made 625hp... shifted at 7200. They were too small for a max-effort 434, but they made a very nice power curve for the street.

[olddog]

Hotfingrs - Your heads at first glance look a bit like a BBC head. I cannot picture them in my head at the moment, but I remember wondering if it was a BBC at first look. Every year I give it a hard look and wonder what heads are on it. Thanks for the info.

Are the valves in a straight line like a SBC, only canted a bit or are they staggered too?

[Hotfingrs]

Originally Posted by olddog

Hotfingrs - Your heads at first glance look a bit like a BBC head. I cannot picture them in my head at the moment, but I remember wondering if it was a BBC at first look. Every year I give it a hard look and wonder what heads are on it. Thanks for the info.

Are the valves in a straight line like a SBC, only canted a bit or are they staggered too?

Valves are straight line. I think the exhaust ports are farther apart because I had to use a Stahl flange when I had the headers made.

Of course it could also be the 2 inch header tubes.....making it look big. Stahl said that engine needed 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 inch tubes, but I wouldn't have any bottom end for the street, so 2 inch was my compromise.

[Hotfingrs]

My wife bought me a Gopro and I used it for the first time yesterday...here's the results.
Turn up the speakers.

First Gopro Video

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by scottj

I know... but it's not often anyone comes over to my house (Bowtie forum) to play... I'm gonna get in on the fun even if I have to make sheet up

Thanks for posting Scott. All are stout but the Ford 9 deg are very impressive numbers. And they peak right at max lift. I saw Kuntz get 430+ at .800" from World's 10 deg, raised ports. Those are sheet metal intakes only too.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Hotfingrs

Actually Chas, I only have around 1.7 horse/CI

I didn't realize when we started that it was stroked. Was thinking 358, thus 2+HP/CI.
That's a very smart combination with a ton of cam for street. Guess compression at least 12:1.
Mitchell's 454 tall deck SBC's regularly made 680 or so at 13:1, 1050 Dominator, a high 6, low 7 roller and about 380cfm heads IIRC.
Thanks for the break-down. The cam sounds cool-makes the car.

[KVenom]

Originally Posted by Lightingrod

I just thought I would see what they look like!

...and here I thought it was an old Ford Y Block!

[Lightingrod]

Some really nice cars there guys!

Just so everyone knows I'm not a Ford hater. It's just that I know SBC/BBC better. Bang for the buck the SBC wins hands down and for most of the time I was hot rodding $$ was a major concern! And yes Ford has had their day as well. I think the 5.0 Fox body Mustangs were one of the best muscle cars of all time. No they were not the coolest, fastest or best looking but they were affordable, reliable and with a few bolt-ons they were fast for the time! By that measure I think they were one of the best and Ford sure made a butt load of them. I had a few myself, Chevy powered of course! Not really, at that point I didn’t have the time so I just drove the wheels off them! I sold the 1986 GT convertible to a friend. A few years ago I helped her overhaul it, last year she had it painted and put on a new top. It still looks and runs great!

[Lightingrod]

Originally Posted by KVenom

...and here I thought it was an old Ford Y Block!

It is a Y block, a 312, I just need to run those after-market top-end oiler lines! I thought about trying that line. Of course anyone who knows the old Y blocks would not be fooled, the two center bolt valve covers!

[Rick Parker]

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I've never understood the logic behind trying to disguise an engine as something else.

That goes for Chevys with Ford valve covers and SBF's with FE valve covers. If you're that ashamed of it, change it.

Sort of like stenciling "Goodyear" on Yokohama tires????????

[Lightingrod]

Or maybe like putting a "Cobra emblem" on a "fiberglass replica"?
It's all just a matter of degree, is it not?

If you were a washing machine part what part would you be? I guess I would be the agitator?

[Hotfingrs]

Chas....Mitchell's 454 uses a standard deck block and it's bored to the max, with a tall deck you don't have to bore it as much. Check out Shafiroff.com they build their 454 using the tall deck block.

[olddog]

There was a time when I knew what the SBC deck height is, but I cannot remember.

So what is the standard deck height and what is the tall deck?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Hotfingrs

Chas....Mitchell's 454 uses a standard deck block and it's bored to the max, with a tall deck you don't have to bore it as much. Check out Shafiroff.com they build their 454 using the tall deck block.

Scott used to use the World 9.025 deck block. From Scott's site:
"We Build Our 454 Small Block The Right Way ... 9.325" Race Block With Only A 4.185" Bore And A 4.125" Stroke Crank For Extra Torque. No Head Gasket Problems And No Cylinder Wall Issues In This Baby!
"
Mitchell's finishes at 4.25" x 4.0" for iron; 4.125" for aluminum. NO warranty claims for head gaskets or walls on the World-unless they were sprayed.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by olddog

There was a time when I knew what the SBC deck height is, but I cannot remember.

So what is the standard deck height and what is the tall deck?

Std = 9.025

Tall = 9.325 or 9.5

For dirt Late Model we built our 3.875 stroke (420ci) and under motors w/9.025 DH, 4" & 4.125" stroke (434 & 447) w/9.325 DH, & 4.25" stroke (460ci) w/9.5 DH.

These are based on 4.4 bore spacing & 4.155 bore (.030 over). Regardless of DH, all had .391 raised cams and spread rails.

The 4.5 Bore Spaced blocks come standard w/4.180 bore...