Manual

[chimaera]

Hi,

I am from Germany and 3 years ago I bought a used Classic Roadster.

Unfortunately the previous owner had no manual.

In the past this was no problem but meanwhile I am intersted to read the manual.

So does anybody know from where I can get (buy) a manual.

Thanks

Thomas

[MaSnaka]

Thomas,
Your not missing much. I have one and maybe it's just old and outdated...well for sure it is that, but the instructions are vague and the pictures almost useless. Newspaper quality. They lack the high resolution that we have come to appreceate today. I only have the one one copy and would like to keep it with the car, but I could copy some pages for you if you would like something specific. Let me know if you need anything.

John

[onefastmustang]

I have been thinking about making the entire manual digital and put it on the web. Do you think the future owner/past owners of CR would freak if I did that.

[tcrist]

Mike,
You would probably be doing them a favor.

Terry

[Double Venom]

You didn't ask, but a couple of things come to mind; Much of the information is out dated, parts listed are no longer available, wiring out dated and non-existent, etc.

Copyright laws questionable at best, but now owned by the "Bank" .....ahh not my business, do as you wish.
DV

[onefastmustang]

All good points.. never mind.. Maybe I should strip my car apart and make my own manual.. LOL

[Hray]

So who would own the copy right to the manual that was put out by classic roadesters as compared to CRII. I will have to look at my manual to see if they have the copy right statement in it. I know these manuals are for the non gearhead type, or more to perhaps assist in the correct order of assembly to make sure you do not have to put something on and take it off a dozen times before completion. It is nice to know the sequence but i would think anyone with knowledge and skills could assemble one it these without the manual, but of course with much head scratching.

As long as this discussion board is operating we have something better than any manual out there.

Question for me to research, how long does a copy right stay in effect on printed material like this.

Ray

[onefastmustang]

I wonder if taking and importing it all into a digital format and then updating it with better info and better pictures would be considered copyright infringement. I work for a book company. I will ask legal counsel what they think about that.

[chimaera]

@John,

are there any pages about the wiring of the electrical system

Thomas

[Double Venom]

Hray,
Don, CRII did nothing but some updates on the manual. He used the original manual for a base.

In case any one is interested the reason Cpt. Eddies thread is so detailed is that I was put in charge of writing a new manual and updating the photo's. Basically since so many things have changed, the building of the car is totally wrong, at least the order it is written. All things were discussed and changes being made were OK'd by both Don and I.

I still have hope that CR's will be back someday and the new manual will be in place.

OFM- May I suggest to be awful careful of the liability you may be opening your self up to!

DV

PS.. from what I understand the copyright on written material is non-expiring especially if is being updated. Look at it this way, Copy a work of Mark Twain's and see if someone doesn't go ballistic. editors, family members, historical department, what ever

[MaSnaka]

Thomas,
Yes I have the wiring chapter...about 30 pages. I can photo copy and mail them to you. Go to "Private Messages" and send me your address and I'll have it out in the mail in a day or two.

John

[Hray]

OFM: the easiest way is for you or someone else (hint DV) or even myself to do is write a documentary on how you constructed your car. use your own pictures, create your own text, and put it in the format you want. Heck, we already have this done, since all these postings in this site are public domain documents and would not be subject to copyright anyone could down load all the pictures from this site, use the language from these posting, add their own language and more, then publish and sell the book. or post it for free on some website. I think most of us would agree the cr manual as we know it today is almost useless but better than nothing.

secondarily, I would doubt that anyone is greatly concerned about protecting that old outdated manual. Then there is the legal aspect of is this manual protected, here is a section from the copyright law. Which might indicate it is not protected. I also could not find a copy right certificate for this work, and part of the law says for someone to file action against copyright law the work must be registered. My online search did not find the registration.

Section 102 of the copyright law, title 17, United States Code, clearly expresses this principle: “In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”

What would be protected is the great photos in the book, these would and could be considered works of art and thus be protected. The text of instructions is most likely not protected for many reasons. But, if the photo is used to illustrate a procedure then that also may be questionable.

Bottom line is it would be easier to make a manual from scratch rather than rewrite the one we have.

So have we nearly beat this horse to death. So until we have something else we keep making copies of this manual to get to those that do not have one.

Ray

[Double Venom]

Just so both of you, Hray,OFM, know, anything to help a guy build his car is great in my opinion. I'm sticking my nose in here because I certainly don't have a horse in this race but, may I give you some legal advice? Aahh I am NOT an attorney in any way shape or form, I don't work for an attorney, I am not a Legal Aide, but I do know a lot of the upper echelon of guys that are.

I can however voice an opinion, I am not concerned so much with the "copyright" issue is the chance of liability that could be brought against OFM. I.E., You put up a manual, photo's the whole works. Now a new guy finds it on line, or God forbid actually "buys" one from you, builds it "exactly" the way you describe. Sometime in the future, something he has done by following your guide lines/pictures goes horribly wrong. Who do the attorney's go after? Even if it was a "part" failure think of what it would cost to defend that case!?

How do you prove you were right? Schooling, degree in automotive engineering, thousand built cars under your belt, your car(s) have been examined by automotive engineers and approved in writing, etc..... ?

(I know even the post I have just made mentioning "Terry Gattrill" could leave me open for his attorney or Gattrill (IF he has one?) but I don't care! That man is wrong and I will not stand around and watch anyone screw with this family of ours! Besides everything to the letter is TRUE and I beg him to differ!)

Just be careful out there! (Hill Street Blues)
DV

[Hray]

DV: I hear your concern, and thanks for voicing it. As a retired enforcement officer and regulator I am well aware of these types of situations. The giving of advice as you state can have adverse consequences as you pointed out.

If I wrote any type of manual it certainly would not be one that provides instructions to build a CR car. There would be no financial gain to be had. What, here on this site we seem to get about 1 request a month for someone needing a manual. You would only expect to sell about 20 a year, and for how many years before all the lost forgotten kits are assembled. the only person really interested in a new manual would be the new owners of CR if there ever is one.

Now if someone could figure out how to write a novel or biography of how they built cars and could make it really interesting to a wide audience, make it eintertaining then you might be able to sell a few thousand of them and actually make a dollar or two from it. There are already hundreds of books on how to build hot rods, how to wire them, how to paint cars, how to upholster, how to rebuild engines, etc.......... so until there is a new owner of cr there most likely will not be someone coming out with such a narrowly focused book on this subject of cr's and building them. Therefore, we just as you say try to get the stuff people need to help them thru the problems they have.

As for me I have many more interesting subjects to write books on that would appeal to a wider audience than a manual on car building.

I will keep my blog going and provide as specific details as possible so perhaps someone can learn just a little, most likely you will do the same.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that someone will revive the CR brand and parts just in case I need something.


Ray

[MaSnaka]

Ray I too keep my fingers crossed that CR gets new life. But I won't hold my breath.

I have a CR manual I can make availible to anyone who would like to use it for reference. No charge!! Just a sincere thank you will be enough. PM me for your request, it's that easy.

John

[CobraZach]

Hi Everyone:

I have a CR manual that I could make a copy of. PM me if I can help.

Take Care,
CobraZach