Classic Roadster build

[badvnom]

I realize that it is time to update this post. I wanted other owners to see the kind of trouble you can get into with these projects because there are plenty of unscrupulous characters still out there although the recession has flushed several of them.
I bought an unfinished CR kit from the mid 90s in 2008. I contracted with Don Scott (now deceased) to finish it for me originally because he was the "manufacturer" at the time. Don was heralded in the Classic Roadsters community and still is to some degree. When I visited his shop in 2008, it was bustling with employees, projects and parts everywhere. Don told me that finishing my car would take about six months because he so much work. I shipped the vehicle to Don in Sauk Centre. While Don was very helpful at first and we talked on the phone quite a bit, I noticed after a few months (and sending him quite a bit of money) that nothing was happening and that he quit answering the phone and responding to questions by the Spring of 2009. I got his home number and that prompted him to confess that he was struggling with employees (because he had stopped paying them I found out later from one of them I tracked down) and suppliers (engine builder) to complete the car. He went out of business within less than a year after that and took me for thousands of dollars. I learned a hard lesson in life at that point. Because Don's business went bankrupt, my attorney advised me that I'd be lucky to even get my kit back at that point. So, while Don sat comfortably in his farm house, I was scrambling to figure out my next move.
At that time (late fall of 2009), he recommended to me another builder in Detroit known as Terry Gatrell of Great Lakes Replicas. Based on Don's recommendation (who was still heralded as an expert even at that time on this forum), I had the unfinished car shipped to Detroit for Gatrell to finish (for those keeping up with story, that's two times the car was shipped at my cost in excess of $1,000). Supposedly, Terry and Don were working with the bank that had seized Don's business assets to transition the business to Terry in Detroit. Terry was indeed held up in an impressive 15,000 square foot former auto manufacturing facility. What I didn't know was that he had worked a deal with the landlord to "borrow" against the lease until he could get the business transitioned. He in fact, had no capital except for what he stole from several unsuspecting people (myself included) as down payments on the completion of their project.
So, roll bars and a partially assembled engine that I had paid Don in addition to the 50% down I paid for the build for were never found. Don's explanation at the time was that because he was out of business he could not access the parts because the bank had them tied up and he didn't have the money to reimburse me. His passing obviously ends that saga. Terry Gattrell turned out to be a bigger liar than Don. After several years of "working" on the car, money that I paid for an engine build that never happened (again) and a transmission that is still missing to this day, I finally was made aware by his landlord that he was past due on his rent for a year and was being evicted. My oldest son and I visited Terry last Summer 2012 and he stood right beside my car and told me that he had the transmission with a guy who was modifying it for a hydraulic clutch and that my car would be finished by the end of the year. I found out later from the landlord that he wasn't even supposed to be on the property that he was taking legal action against Terry. Terry owes me thousands of dollars for uncompleted engine work, painting, transmission and miscellaneous parts. I understand he is living with his mother and has finally stopped answering the phone as Great Lakes Replicas (which irritated me to no end).
In looking through the paperwork left behind by Terry and hearing from several other owners that contacted me once I went public with this news I found out that Terry was indeed defrauding over a dozen people and under investigation by the State Attorney General's office. Evidence suggests that he had taken pictures of my kit and used them to entice at least two other would be owners to pay him a down payment on a kit that was under construction. That's right, in other words, he was pedal ing my kit to others who thought they getting a car.
Ed Combs (who sold me a set of botched roll bars) and many others have come forward saying that Terry had defrauded them too. It's time that the word gets out there that this guy is a crook. He's the Bernie Madoff of Cobras!
If you see Terry Gattrell, tell him I said, "what comes around goes around". And, yes, while my loving spouse continues to support me, she cannot fathom the money that I've simply lost and will never recover pursuing this car. I put the cash losses for unfinished labor and parts paid for but never delivered at $16,000. I'm ashamed to admit that I let that much go when it could have gone to much better use in our family because I have two small children and one finishing college. I offer this information to demonstrate how badly things can go and as a lesson to others to keep their eyes wide open.
So, in late fall of 2012, I made a decision to take the car to Jeff Nelson of Celina Custom Auto. He came recommended by a number of owners on the forum and after much anquish over the financial losses already embedded in this kit, I decided to press on. The engine long block was completed by Michigan Motor exchange and recently shipped to Jeff. Suspension and rear end are complete. I recently visited Jeff's shop and looked at the color combination and body paint that he had recently completed. It was better than I expected and Jeff is working toward finishing my car in late Spring of 2012.
Thanks to all the members who have emailed offering advice on where to find parts and build information. I've certainly been tainted by what's happened and never thought I'd ever be the victim of such fraud and deceit. Please take precautions when dealing with folks out there. Ask questions, don't be afraid to upset anyone when testing their creditability. Get information and recommendations on who you are dealing with. And never, I mean NEVER, put money on deposit for work to be completed unless you can stomach losing it. When paying for parts get receipts on them or pay the distributor directly. But, despite these precautions, you can still get robbed, never take anything for granted.

[jaydonaldson]

Try Jeff Nelson in celina Ohio. He painted my car and he is awesome He does what he say he is going to do. He goes by wreckerboy on this site. Good luck

[jwinkler]

Maybe not the reply you're looking for, but if you can find a friend or local cobra enthusiast with and engine lift and stand, dropping in the engine and trans isn't bad. With the help of a *very* mechanically inclined friend (with a stand and lift), I swapped my 302 for a 351 we built, and dropping in the engine and trans was the easiest part of the project. If you can handle the wiring (the thing that I was most worried about), with the right equipment and space, this should be pretty straightforward.

Having said that, I did all this with the body on - I have no idea what's involved in mounting the body, so you may be looking for a lot more that just help with the engine.

Best of luck -

JLW

PS - please don't take my reply as glib - I had never attempted anything like an engine swap, and was amazed at how (as long as we went slowly) the engine went back in.

[badvnom]

I have a car lift, engine hoist, engine stand. I've restored TR6s over the years. My concern is starting from scratch with no engine mounts and matching all the components up and getting it running properly. I have the build manual and it makes me even more concerned since is so short on detail.

Gosh, I wish I had the time too. I think I could finish it if it were a running roller even if it would take a couple years.

But thanks for the quick responses guys, its encouraging, I've had a lot of disappointment with all this but feel like I can't give in to the bad people out there who screw with someone's dream of owning a cool car one day (not to mention the money they stole from me).

[TomsCobra]

I recently put the engine in my CR (streetbeast). If needed I can get you the part number for the mounts I used. It actually turned out good.

[cobrakiwi]

PM sent,
Hang in there, it will get done. My shop is in VA if you are still looking for help.

[G_Edmonds]

You might try a shop that specializes in streetrods. The good ones are used to putting motors and transmissions into things they didn't come in. Also CR's suspension set-up is pretty standard streetrod stuff.
Good luck with your build.
-Greg

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by TomsCobra

I recently put the engine in my CR (streetbeast). If needed I can get you the part number for the mounts I used. It actually turned out good.

Tom,

A Classic Roadster is not a earlier StreetBeast. That was CMC. Not sure what would be compatable, if anything.

[badvnom]

Ok,

I'm going up to Detroit to grab my kit next week. If anybody sees that rotten Terry Gatrell ask him where my transmission and steering column are. Public Service Announcement: Stay away from anyone representing themselves as "Great Lakes Replicas".

[HPCOBRA]

A couple years ago I came across the same contact. He claimed to have all the parts need to complete a CR. He also mention that the bodies were currently being molded over seas. What is the story on this guy?

[tcrist]

There have been quite a few discussions on here about him. Should be able to search using his name in the Classic Roadsters forum and find all that you need.

[CobraSnake427sc]

Originally Posted by badvnom

I'm looking for some help and I'm kind of desparate. While I'm reluctant to come out to the public on this problem I've also come to the conclusion I'll need some help.

I bought an unfinished CR kit from the mid 90s in 2008. I contracted with Don Scott to finish it for me originally because he was the "manufacturer" at the time. He went out of business and took me for thousands of dollars. At that time, he recommended to me another builder in Detroit knownas Terry Gatrell. Based on that recommendation, I had the unfinished car shipped to Detroit for Gatrell to finish. Terry has now been fired as my builder due to the loss of his lease and poor business ethics.

I'm looking for anyone to make a recommendation on a builder to take the car to a running roller. Engine is nearly complete but the motor mounts may still need to be worked out along with the transmission. Suspension and rear end are complete. Body has not been set but is close. I'd be satisfied with the car if someone could at least fit the engine and complete the drivetrain so that I could drive it up on a trailer. I'm looking for a builder hopefully somewhere between Detroit and Virginia. I'm able to do the cosmetic work and most of the wiring but do not really have the equipment or the time to get the project running with complete drivetrain.

If you know of someone or a shop who can seriously do this work I'd be forever grateful. Please do not suggest Double Venom, he screwed me on a set of roll bars that didn't fit.

If you've ever had the rug pulled out from under you twice, you know where I'm at on this. Thanks in advance for your help.



Patrick Johnson

Hi Patrick! Wow! I have never heard that about Don or DV as when I was building my CR kit they were unbelievable in helping me with any problems I had. Hard to believe!
Anyways why don't you just do it your self...don't take that in a bad way!!

I have never build a car in my life. Didn't know the first thing about it...but I wanted a Cobra and just followed the manual.
For the drive train I just rented a engine host, most places will drop it off at your door.
I then put on the engine mounts, lowered the engine on the rolling chase, lined the transmission up to the rear differential, put the headers and side pipes on line them up to the side pipe elite, or what ever it's called. The piece that is on the side pipe that connects to the frame just before the back wheels. Well that is what is on the originals CR kits I believe, I didn't have them on mine. My side pipes where custom made.

If you set up that and attach the side pipes, then you should be able to center the engine and line it up to the rear differential.
Than all you have to do is get the drive shaft cut for the distance you need and, give it a little room for any movement. I think it explains it in the manual.

I just followed the info in the manual and it worked out great. I started my CR kit in 2000 and finished it in 2003 and have had it on the road every year since.

It's not as hard as you think it is= but, just do what you can day by day and at the end it will be done and, then you can enjoy it.

P.S If there are no holes drilled for the engine mounts...just line it up like I said and then clamp down the engine mounts so they are flat, re-check everything again to make sure it lines up from the tranny to the diff. Look at it from the front and make sure it's straight then drill the holes for the engine mount.
You could also put the body on with a couple of friends and, see how it looks when the hood is on. I have the oval Cobra carburetor air cleaner on and it sits just fine under the hood with the newer engine mounts.
Well Patrick! Hope this helps you out...if you don't have the manual.....I could maybe scan some pictures for you to help you out.

Just remember...day by day just do something to it and it will be done.
Later.
Gerry.

[Double Venom]

My, my, my. After months of no contact, the first thing that pops up is Mr. Patrick! Gee, I'm Shocked that Mr Gattrill screwed you! When I first read this I was going to find the "Poster" & immediately offer a refund on your roll bar! That is until I figured out who you were! Remember when I offered you & Gattrill to go to Lansing for free to pick up your car? Do you remember that Gattrill & you giving me so much grief about the roll bar? Do you remember Gattrill sending me a dozen+\- pictures of your roll bar he was attempting to PUT In ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Putting it behind the seat instead of going through the body! I HOPE he didn't cut your frame!

Patrick, say what you want but.......
DV & proud of it & our family.

[Double Venom]

PS,
You're obviously missing the motor mounting plates. Allows for stock motor mounts to be bolted in place. Proper height & angle for headers & side pipes. IF you want & you are ready to (respectfully) listen, you get all your parts that Gattrill hasn't sold, take a short side trip to Pentwater. I will forget all between our past conversations, "I told you so -Gattrill -seems so childish. I will try & help you once again even if its only advice. But, only once.
DV

[badvnom]

What's your email address so I can email you?

[Double Venom]

Patrick,
I'm not sure my email is working yet?
Neither my phone nor comp. seems to be working?
But it's still dv4477@gmail.com

Phone is 231 869 4608

[60 healey 5000]

There is a great Cobra builder in Columbus Ohio...honest.dependable , if you want,I can email his phone number...He has built CRII cobras before as well as Sebring 5000's

[badvnom]

Double Venom,

While I don't think you are a crook like Terry or Don, you certainly are weird and possibly in need of some therapy. You did screw up the roll bars you overcharged me for so I would never buy parts from you or encourage anyone else to do so. Because I understand that you have some health problems, I'm not going to take this any further but you'd be the last person I'd go to for help.

[badvnom]

Thanks for all the support out there in Cobra land. The advice has been good and I turned the car over to Jeff Nelson with Celina Custom Auto in Ohio. Thus far Jeff has been very supportive and was willing to finish the car despite the botched efforts of Don Scott, Terry Gattrel and Ed Combs (roll bars).

I do have the build manual but I'd like to warn everyone that if you're thinking that it will help much, it was written by a seventh grader and needs updating in a serious way. The pictures aren't much help and I find that the builders out there have found better ways of completing the steps and the order of completion in the manual is not the best way.

[tcrist]

Ok badvenom, we get it. Good luck to Celina Custom Auto.