Disc brake upgrade

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

O.K.

The best I have found for moderate boosting power is the 7" 84 +/- Corvette booster. Straight swap, and is made for 4 whl discs. Not only does it work great but the smaller size is a big plus.

Thanks for the advice DV, you are definitely the Guru on these CR's (as defined by all of your posts on this forum).

I think between the 11" disk upgrade and booster will make braking 100% better than the manual 9" disk/drum set up

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

Keep in mind if you are changing to a rear disc set up you will need to change the MC with the larger rear brake reservoir. So if you plan to do the rear brake upgrade later it will pay to plan ahead if replacing your MC first.

Ohio Ken,
Originally my car had the 9" Pinto brakes, no booster. The original pedal ratio was meant to be used with a booster. The longer brake pedal in my gallery photo is the one meant to be used with the booster. The existing pedal box has the holes drilled to use a different pivot point, but I had to modify my pedal to fit. Keeping the MC piston rod in the same location I shortened the pedal arm and relocated the pivot point which gives much more foot leverage to the pedal when applying the brakes. Cost about $20. With no booster added this change alone made a world of difference. Upgrading the fronts to the 11" Wilwoods made another huge difference. I just didn't notice such a difference with the rear brake upgrade. Right now the car stops righteously. I have no plans to make further upgrades. BTW- I am using DOT3 with a 15/16" MC. To quote someone else I saw on the forum "the better I can stop, the faster I'm willing to go". True that.

Also if working on your pedal box area, hint: take off your steering wheel. Makes accessing the narrow space a lot easier.

John

John, thanks for all the advise. This is number one on my winter project list. Next is working over wiring and adding headlight relay for brighter lights., then tackle rattles, and upgrade side pipes

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

Keep in mind if you are changing to a rear disc set up you will need to change the MC with the larger rear brake reservoir. So if you plan to do the rear brake upgrade later it will pay to plan ahead if replacing your MC first.

....

Also if working on your pedal box area, hint: take off your steering wheel. Makes accessing the narrow space a lot easier.

John

I'm going remote reservoir for my brakes and clutch. The clutch will get a dedicated reservoir, while the reservoir for the brakes is a good size (probably 500ml) single reservoir with separate ports for front and rear side of MC. With that and a disc/disc proportioning valve (or a gutted combination valve with separate proportioning valve for rear) is there any reason to change the MC?

I completely agree with the recommendation to pull the steering wheel if you're doing any work in the foot box. It's tight enough down there without the steering wheel adding to the degree of difficulty (new Olympic sport?). My steering wheel probably takes less than 5 minutes to pull, perhaps less, so definitely worth doing if I'm diving into the footbox for anything more than something trivial.

[MaSnaka]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I'm going remote reservoir for my brakes and clutch. The clutch will get a dedicated reservoir, while the reservoir for the brakes is a good size (probably 500ml) single reservoir with separate ports for front and rear side of MC. With that and a disc/disc proportioning valve (or a gutted combination valve with separate proportioning valve for rear) is there any reason to change the MC?

I don't know enough about that to advise you. I purchased a new MC with cast reservoirs from CPP (Classic Performance Products). They have a large selection of steering, brakes and suspensions. I think the MC, proportion valve and push rod were around $160 so it didn't break the bank.

John

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

I don't know enough about that to advise you. I purchased a new MC with cast reservoirs from CPP (Classic Performance Products). They have a large selection of steering, brakes and suspensions. I think the MC, proportion valve and push rod were around $160 so it didn't break the bank.

John

I could (and may) replace the MC, but I'd still be stuck with a MC that's a PITA to access, so I'm installing remote reservoirs regardless. As I see it right now, the only real advantage to changing the MC is going to one that's designed for remote reservoirs, perhaps simplifying that installation or, at least, making it a cleaner setup.

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

I replaced the 9" Pinto discs on my CR with the Wilwood 11" 4 piston Dynolites. I think I dropped about 20lbs per wheel, number is a little fuzzy but it was significant. I also changed the pedal ratio which made a huge difference. There are pictures in my gallery of the mods to the brake pedal. Stopping improved greatly. Later I replaced the rear drums with 11" Wilwoods, new master and proportioning valve. I didn't notice a big change in stopping ability but I am glad for the upgrade.

John

Hey John
On your rear disk wilwood 11", did you use the 2-1/2" offset for 8.8" axle?
This looks like it would reduce my current offset (drums) by 1/2 to 1". I wouldn't mind moving my tires inward a little, but not sure if tires would rub inside the tub. My tires are P295/50R/15 mounted on am racing shelby knockoff look a likes . Do you remember the wilwood P/N?

[MaSnaka]

Ohio Ken,
I think I can find the number but first you should know it was installed on a custom ordered 9" housing. Might take me a day or two to get back to you with it if you still want it.

John

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

Ohio Ken,
I think I can find the number but first you should know it was installed on a custom ordered 9" housing. Might take me a day or two to get back to you with it if you still want it.

John

I see, I doubt if it would be the same then, but thanks. I will just have to do some clearance test to see if I have the room. I suppose I could also use a spacer if needed.
Thanks
Ken

[saltshaker]

I switched to Wilwood Dynalites (4 piston) on all 4 wheels and bought a Wilwood Tandem MC 7/8 bore .... BIG improvement over the GM Metric's
You can add a booster to that MC if you want power brakes
Jon

[MaSnaka]

Ken,
You might want to give Wilwood a call. Their tech support is very good. They are located in So Cal so don't call too early. You should find exactly what you need from them part number wise but may want to shop around at a place like Summit to actually purchase. Save some $$.

John

[Lightingrod]

Are the disc rear ends wider than the drum, how much?

[Ohio Ken]

Update: Well, thanks to everyone's input. I have began the brake mods. I pulled the trigger in front Willwood dynolites and a 7" booster with new Master Cylinder ad well as adjustable proportioning valve.
Had to modify the pushrod and re-route brake lines. PITA working in the tight space. I still plan to add Wilwoods to the rear, but need to talk to their tech dept(about) offset, before I pull the trigger. Whenever I get this stuff installed I will post pics.
Thanks
PS also redoing exhaust have to cut away muffler and weld new glass pack in place then re-ceramic coat.
Ken

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by Lightingrod

Are the disc rear ends wider than the drum, how much?

Not sure about that. But when I measured my current offset (drums), from axle flange to wheel mount face, it is 3". The Willwoods state the offset will be 2.5". I am going to talk to their tech guys to see about keeping the same offset. I assume worst cast would be using 1/2" wheel spacers.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Lightingrod

Are the disc rear ends wider than the drum, how much?

The housing is the same length, but the axles are .750" longer due to the anti-lock ring. You can switch it over relatively easy by putting in Ranger axles and buying the caliper mounting plates from Northracecars.

[JEwalt]

I used a Lincoln Mark VII 8.8 axle housing, rotors, calipers and mounting plates (reversed plates from left to right and right to left for correct offset).

Replaced axle shafts with "Driver Side" Ranger shafts or "Passenger Side" Aerostar shafts.

[Lightingrod]

Thanks for the info! I already have a Mustang disc 8.8 but have not picked it up yet. I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble? I like to go fast but only 1/4 mile at a time!

[joyridin']

If you are going to do nothing but 1/4 mile runs, drum brakes can be set-up with no drag whereas disk brakes always have some type of drag. Therefore, drum brakes are a little better for drag racing....not for stopping though.

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

I replaced the 9" Pinto discs on my CR with the Wilwood 11" 4 piston Dynolites. I think I dropped about 20lbs per wheel, number is a little fuzzy but it was significant. I also changed the pedal ratio which made a huge difference. There are pictures in my gallery of the mods to the brake pedal. Stopping improved greatly. Later I replaced the rear drums with 11" Wilwoods, new master and proportioning valve. I didn't notice a big change in stopping ability but I am glad for the upgrade.

John

John
I have installed my front wilwood 11" kit. But have a question regarding using their braided flex line. The hole in the frame bracket that holds the flexline to where in adapts to the hard line is 3/4" diameter. The OD on the Wilwood flexline fitting is 5/8" diameter. The old oem rubber hose had a groove for putting a e-style retaining clip on the (outboard) wheel side, and uses the big brass oem style clip to hold the fitting to the frame bracket on the inboard (hard line side).
The wilwood flexline fitting that goes through the frame bracket, does not have a retaining clip groove for the outboard side, therefore, the fitting, barely has anything to hold on the outboard side, once you secure the clip on the inboard side.
Do you remember running into this issue? And if so, how did you modify it to hold securely?

I did try putting a retaining clip on the outboard side but then the inboard side groove is barely exposed for installing the oem style clip. I thought about grinding down the thickness of the frame bracket. But was hoping to see how you did it first. Hope my question makes sense?
Ken

[MaSnaka]

Ken,
I just looked at how my brakelines are held in place. I don't recall anything complicated or requiring modifications with the parts provided. The frame member where the OEM brakelines were held has a 3/4" hole, there is a square "C" clip that holds the line fitting in tight on the inside of the frame and the outside of the frame there is a hex nut on the flex line that fits against the hole in the frame. If you PM me your email I can send you a pic of the inside and the outside of the frame member. Hope that helps and I'll keep an eye on my PM's incase you want the pics. Good luck.

John

[Ohio Ken]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

Ken,
I just looked at how my brakelines are held in place. I don't recall anything complicated or requiring modifications with the parts provided. The frame member where the OEM brakelines were held has a 3/4" hole, there is a square "C" clip that holds the line fitting in tight on the inside of the frame and the outside of the frame there is a hex nut on the flex line that fits against the hole in the frame. If you PM me your email I can send you a pic of the inside and the outside of the frame member. Hope that helps and I'll keep an eye on my PM's incase you want the pics. Good luck.

John

Thanks John
Sounds exactly like mine. But with the 3/4" hole, I did not like the way the outside hex fits, (where the very tips of the hex is the only thing holding).

I found my own solution, by taking two fender washers and cutting a hex shape in the ID using a dremel tool. Then welded the washer over the hex on the fitting. Now can't slip into the large hole!
Thanks
Ken