Kirk! We're under attack!! Suspension help.

[rbgray1]

Redhawk,

Progress looks great. I really like the red A-Arms, should look great when you get it completed.

Couple of questions:

Rear Set-Up:
Which rear springs are you using? Did you need to cut these down at all?

I noticed you went with the QA1 Double adjustable Shock units? I was thinking single adjustable. I'm not sure if I'll ever spend that much time tuning my suspension with over 300 different setting combinations. Do you feel the Double Adjustable are worth the extra $100 per corner?

I'm still contemplating converting to QA1 coil-overs in the rear using original shock position, just welding on upper and lower eyelet plates so the coilovers will clear the upper frame and lower axle tube.

Did you need to pick up a new E-Brake cable (Wilwood PN 330-9371)? I don't know if our stock Ford cable will work with the Wilwood E Brake setup.

Thanks for the pics, I'd really like to see the final bracket setup used for the new front lower A-Arms when you get them welded in.

I have all my Heidts A-Arms sitting in my garage ready to go out for PowderCoating. Just wondering if I should return the lower strut arm set-up and go to full lower A-Arms.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

Redhawk,

Progress looks great. I really like the red A-Arms, should look great when you get it completed.

Couple of questions:

Rear Set-Up:
Which rear springs are you using? Did you need to cut these down at all?

I noticed you went with the QA1 Double adjustable Shock units? I was thinking single adjustable. I'm not sure if I'll ever spend that much time tuning my suspension with over 300 different setting combinations. Do you feel the Double Adjustable are worth the extra $100 per corner?

I'm still contemplating converting to QA1 coil-overs in the rear using original shock position, just welding on upper and lower eyelet plates so the coilovers will clear the upper frame and lower axle tube.

Did you need to pick up a new E-Brake cable (Wilwood PN 330-9371)? I don't know if our stock Ford cable will work with the Wilwood E Brake setup.

Thanks for the pics, I'd really like to see the final bracket setup used for the new front lower A-Arms when you get them welded in.

I have all my Heidts A-Arms sitting in my garage ready to go out for PowderCoating. Just wondering if I should return the lower strut arm set-up and go to full lower A-Arms.

Let me check on springs tomorrow, but they are not cut down at all.
From what my fabricator has spec'd looks pretty darn simple to weld an angle bracket to eliminate the strut. Once we removed the strut it was a bulky hunk of metal so glad to see it go.

I went with dual adjustable because why the heck not? I mean with a couple clicks you can dial in a cushy ride for a long cruise or a couple more clicks and your set up for the track. I love the ability to tweak it.

As for coil overs for the back I didnt go with them because the 4 link seemed more solid in design. I suppose you could leave that intact and add coil overs but wasnt convinced that would have made a difference. Definitely do not go with coil overs only and omitting 4 link or having another means of securing the rear end. Not safe.

I'll also get you the E brake padt number because yes your right the ford will not work.

[rbgray1]

Redhawk,

Thanks for the update.

On the rear, I was thinking of just adding QA1 coil over spring setup, removing factory "Chevette" springs and adjuster plates but keeping the 4 Link and converting to new Upper and lower QA1 link arms. Their upper arms allow pinion angle adjustment and their lower arms are boxed and far beefier than the stock ford units but still have provisions for mounting the rear Sway Bar.

Keep the pics coming, your input has been invaluable in helping me determine how far I'm going to go with my rebuild.

Can you please let me know what you ordered for the front swaybar and how it works out and mounts?

I may even start a new thread "Rebirth of a Classic Roadster 1", as I've spent the last few days finalizing removal of the body, building a roller buck to hold the body properly so it doesn't sag during the rebuild, and most of my time just pressure washing and degreasing 26 years and 28,000 miles of road grime and grease from the chassis and body underside.

[rbgray1]

Progress......what progress? LOL

Just began rebuild of a 26 year old CR1 I built in 1990.

[mooreken]

I was following your posts. One of the most important thing to do is to use this link

Street Performance & Racing Spring Rate Tech | Understanding Spring Rates | QA1 Suspension

From QA1 to figure out your spring rate ratio. My kit came with Coil overs and springs...The front was ok but the rear springs were almost a 100 lbs too strong do the leverage and angle of the shocks.

Knowing what each wheel or at least each axle weight is also very important. You can use the scales at a truck stop and just pull the front wheels on and then the rear axle to get where you are at.

In my case I ended up with 53% rear weight but do to the length of my rear trailing arms I still needed lighter rear springs than the front. My kit came with all 4 the same weight.

Hope you enjoy tuning your car.....Ken

[rbgray1]

Mooreken,

Thanks for the note, I did read through QA1 Spring rate selection instructions on their website, also printed a fair amount of their catalog that was pertinent to my rebuild.

At this point I'm planning on going with QA1 MD302-08375 kits up front, these are 375 lb springs. Not yet sure what to do in the rear as the stock 1989 Mustang 4 link setup has the shocks at a slight angle (probably 5-8 degrees) and probably want a soft to midfirm ride. QA1 rear setup for 1989 Mustang is RCK52343 (soft) but these are for a metal bodied 1989 Mustang and probably way to firm for the light rear end of the CR1. Also, the 1989 Mustang shock is shorter than the factory Monroe shock called for in the original build (#Old Monroe #5876 or 32077 New Number). these were 11" compressed and 17.250 extended) A friend of mine works for Tenneco and I called their engineering group directly. I'm speaking with QA1 directly this afternoon, probably with a beer in my hand to place my order of a couple of grand just to swallow the pain in my wallet.

Thanks for the advice, I'm just trying to determine what works for others with CRs to avoid doing things a second time after my rebuild as I'm getting to old to do this again. I figure if this rebuild is completed next summer /early fall(can't work on it over the winter due to my wife and I being in Florida and the car is in my Cleveland Area northern home)if it lasts as long as the original build, I'll be pushing 90 and won't be planning a 3rd rebuild.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

Redhawk,

Progress looks great. I really like the red A-Arms, should look great when you get it completed.

Couple of questions:

Rear Set-Up:
Which rear springs are you using? Did you need to cut these down at all?

I noticed you went with the QA1 Double adjustable Shock units? I was thinking single adjustable. I'm not sure if I'll ever spend that much time tuning my suspension with over 300 different setting combinations. Do you feel the Double Adjustable are worth the extra $100 per corner?

I'm still contemplating converting to QA1 coil-overs in the rear using original shock position, just welding on upper and lower eyelet plates so the coilovers will clear the upper frame and lower axle tube.

Did you need to pick up a new E-Brake cable (Wilwood PN 330-9371)? I don't know if our stock Ford cable will work with the Wilwood E Brake setup.

Thanks for the pics, I'd really like to see the final bracket setup used for the new front lower A-Arms when you get them welded in.

I have all my Heidts A-Arms sitting in my garage ready to go out for PowderCoating. Just wondering if I should return the lower strut arm set-up and go to full lower A-Arms.

Youve got the right Wilwood part number. pretty sweet setup

Springs at back are 8" 375lbs.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

Redhawk,

Thanks for the update.

On the rear, I was thinking of just adding QA1 coil over spring setup, removing factory "Chevette" springs and adjuster plates but keeping the 4 Link and converting to new Upper and lower QA1 link arms. Their upper arms allow pinion angle adjustment and their lower arms are boxed and far beefier than the stock ford units but still have provisions for mounting the rear Sway Bar.

Keep the pics coming, your input has been invaluable in helping me determine how far I'm going to go with my rebuild.

Can you please let me know what you ordered for the front swaybar and how it works out and mounts?

I may even start a new thread "Rebirth of a Classic Roadster 1", as I've spent the last few days finalizing removal of the body, building a roller buck to hold the body properly so it doesn't sag during the rebuild, and most of my time just pressure washing and degreasing 26 years and 28,000 miles of road grime and grease from the chassis and body underside.

Okay so sway bar is actually 1" after some research we feel that the dimension is best for my setup. What we're doing is fabing a 3 position bracket and use heim joints that will accept sway bar and allow for quicker adjustment while on the car. This way I can dial in performance and not be stuck with choosing wrong size.

The sway bar will also have one arm or bend and not 3 on each side currently. With one bend I can manipulate sway bar with less force which is why I didnt want to go to small.

[RedHawk]

Sorry for the delay, but been out of town.

Update: Cars almost done just some last minute items.
I've posted a picture of the bracket assembly for front lower A-arm.

Also a shot of front brakes and suspension. Grinded front calipers and powder coated them. Suspensions in and aligned.

Just tightening up engine bay with insulation to cover cables and unsightly wires. I even ordered ford blue to brush a new coat of paint on the block.

Headers are next and since locating a set that fits my car is impossible I ordered some that are sitting about a 2 1/2 inches too high but I'm cutting engine mounts and fabricating new ones to lower the engine so that for one the headers line up with a little heating and bending and two the damn air cleaner doesnt rub on the roof anymore.
Should help with handling since cars weight will be lower to the ground. Right?

[rbgray1]

Redhawk,

Thanks for the pics, progress looks great! Now you have me rethinking to go with lower A-Arms rather than strut arms.

Please let me know what you do on your front sway bar, mounting brackets and bushings, etc. I'm really interested in changing mine out to a smaller bar.

[MaSnaka]

RedHawk,
Do you know who the manufacturer is of your upper control arms. They look just like mine only mine are black. More important I am still hunting for the correct replacement ball joint. I have been around and around without success. Ready to buy new arms and say screw it.

John

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

RedHawk,
Do you know who the manufacturer is of your upper control arms. They look just like mine only mine are black. More important I am still hunting for the correct replacement ball joint. I have been around and around without success. Ready to buy new arms and say screw it.

John

Heidts

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

RedHawk,
Do you know who the manufacturer is of your upper control arms. They look just like mine only mine are black. More important I am still hunting for the correct replacement ball joint. I have been around and around without success. Ready to buy new arms and say screw it.

John

Heidts and they came as raw uncoated steel. I had them powder coated red to match car.

Will be finished....well thats a relative term I know, but finished for now. I had to drop the motor to fit headers but that a good thing because new mounts are actually stronger.

Only thing though is alignment. Going to be interesting because tie rods are maxed out on one side. Going to have to add additonal threads to make it work.

I also cant say I'm thrilled with the stance. To be fair it still was being supported by lift just not very much. The front is sitting a little higher than before but it could be that everything needs to settle down a bit. Kinda like when a girl gets a boob job and they are high up on her torso but after awhile the swelling goes down they tend to sit down perfectly. (too much detail?)

It may be wishful thinkiing but we'll have to wait and see. Worst case I have to reweld a new location to achieve desired look.

Pictures to follow sometime this weekend.

[rbgray1]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

RedHawk,
Do you know who the manufacturer is of your upper control arms. They look just like mine only mine are black. More important I am still hunting for the correct replacement ball joint. I have been around and around without success. Ready to buy new arms and say screw it.

John

MaSnaka,

The Heidts stuff is great, you can go with upper and lower A-Arms or just Upper A-Arms and lower coil over arms with strut rod. See one of my previous posts on this string, it contains all the part numbers (Strut Rods need to be for Pinto, not Mustang 2...found out the hard way, the bends are different degree angle) Heidts has all the stuff.

IMPORTANT Note:If you are planning on having your Arms powder coated, order them from Heidts WITHOUT the bushings or ball joints installed, just packed separately in the shipment! The reason is powder coating bakes the finish at temps ranging from 350-400 degrees and this will destroy the bushings and ball joints. I spoke with Rob at Heidts customer service on this as I was also going to have mine powder coated black and Rob told me specifically to remove all bushings and ball joints. Both bushings and ball joints are pressed into the arms. Problem is you will probably destroy the bushings getting them out as they are in halves and pressed in from the outside. Rob even mentioned that the bushings would probably be destroyed removing them.

Since I'm in the Automotive Coatings business, I just decided to go with high quality epoxy primer (black) and topcoat with Single Stage Urethane Gloss Black. Powder Coating is still a little more chip and scratch resistant, but these items don't typically experience much road wear or abrasions. The original A-Arms I painted this way almost 26 years ago still look good overall. Just know ahead of time if you are painting or powder coating when you order the parts.

Easy bolt in, I should have some pics in the next week as I'm upgrading all suspension to coil overs and 4 piston Wilwood 12.19 rotors.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

MaSnaka,

The Heidts stuff is great, you can go with upper and lower A-Arms or just Upper A-Arms and lower coil over arms with strut rod. See one of my previous posts on this string, it contains all the part numbers (Strut Rods need to be for Pinto, not Mustang 2...found out the hard way, the bends are different degree angle) Heidts has all the stuff.

IMPORTANT Note:If you are planning on having your Arms powder coated, order them from Heidts WITHOUT the bushings or ball joints installed, just packed separately in the shipment! The reason is powder coating bakes the finish at temps ranging from 350-400 degrees and this will destroy the bushings and ball joints. I spoke with Rob at Heidts customer service on this as I was also going to have mine powder coated black and Rob told me specifically to remove all bushings and ball joints. Both bushings and ball joints are pressed into the arms. Problem is you will probably destroy the bushings getting them out as they are in halves and pressed in from the outside. Rob even mentioned that the bushings would probably be destroyed removing them.

Since I'm in the Automotive Coatings business, I just decided to go with high quality epoxy primer (black) and topcoat with Single Stage Urethane Gloss Black. Powder Coating is still a little more chip and scratch resistant, but these items don't typically experience much road wear or abrasions. The original A-Arms I painted this way almost 26 years ago still look good overall. Just know ahead of time if you are painting or powder coating when you order the parts.

Easy bolt in, I should have some pics in the next week as I'm upgrading all suspension to coil overs and 4 piston Wilwood 12.19 rotors.

Yeah not sure what he's talking about on ball joints because the only thing affected was the grease which I simply re inserted. As for the bushings its not my first time removing so as long as your carful its not a big deal and it wasnt but heck thats me.

[rbgray1]

Originally Posted by RedHawk

Yeah not sure what he's talking about on ball joints because the only thing affected was the grease which I simply re inserted. As for the bushings its not my first time removing so as long as your carful its not a big deal and it wasnt but heck thats me.

RedHawk,

I also was a little puzzled by Heidt's comments on the ball joints, but Rob at Heidts was very specific that they recommend to remove them. It may be due to something else in the ball joint itself other than grease. Not sure, but he was adamant about removing them prior to powder coating. Seems to me that a steel on steel ball joint wouldn't be effected by bake temps other than liquefying the grease.

[RedHawk]

Originally Posted by rbgray1

RedHawk,

I also was a little puzzled by Heidt's comments on the ball joints, but Rob at Heidts was very specific that they recommend to remove them. It may be due to something else in the ball joint itself other than grease. Not sure, but he was adamant about removing them prior to powder coating. Seems to me that a steel on steel ball joint wouldn't be effected by bake temps other than liquefying the grease.

Yeah not sure. Too late now though, lolci (laugh out loud crying inside)

[MaSnaka]

Thanks,
I will be calling Heidts in the morning. Too bad they don't have prefinished product.

John

[RedHawk]

So been doing some of this work but entrusted someone to do the job I paid them to do and they F'd the whole thing up. I'll explain later. Too damn mad right now to talk about it. Been correcting all the mistakes made. The group I entrusted rymes with GeeBox out of lafayette Co are a bunch of hacks!

I'll figure it out but thread is on hold for now. Is there anyone out there anymore not full of sh*t.

[rbgray1]

Originally Posted by RedHawk

So been doing some of this work but entrusted someone to do the job I paid them to do and they F'd the whole thing up. I'll explain later. Too damn mad right now to talk about it. Been correcting all the mistakes made. The group I entrusted rymes with GeeBox out of lafayette Co are a bunch of hacks!

I'll figure it out but thread is on hold for now. Is there anyone out there anymore not full of sh*t.

Redhawk,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Is it something wrong with the front A-arm geometry? You mentioned in a previous post about the tie Rods not aligning anymore, are the A-Arms wider track than the original Mustang 2 arms?