Bcak pressure and beating a dead horse! - Page 2

Double Venom · #21 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 02:19 PM

BCompy,
Think you might gain a little horsepower to the rear wheels?

Actually, I think many of the Cobra manufacturers use the very same side pipes. They are made in Canada and of course made for "sound restrictions."

I think once you get all the welding done, you should bolt them back up for a few minutes and let her run. It is not as loud as I think you are imagining.

I describe it as a "little" louder, but a lot deeper.

Keep us posted - aye?

DV

niles · #22 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 04:38 PM

If back presure was good; B-29's and fuel dragsters would run mufflers and CAT's.

gn

4RE KLR · #23 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 02:50 PM

Ok DV, you asked for this.

Your right we have talked about this several times but I will be damned if I can figure out just what you guys are talking about. You know my car and engine. I think I am real close to finally getting the webers correctly jetted for the car. We had our annual Austin trip this past weekend and the car ran like a scalded ape. I got 102 MPH out of second gear and barked the tires in third. That's right, automatic and all. And no, the nitros was not lit.

I am just not able to put together what you guys keep saying is wrong. Hell call me stupid. But try me one more time.

I have the Classic Roadsters sidepipes on the car. They are nickel plated and I like the way they look on the car. I also have a set (The very first set) of stainless steel sidepipes made for a Classic, made by George ? you rememmber the door deal. I put these on the car and they look stupid as hell because they are too short. I never started the car with them on. I took them back off that very day. I have them on the top of my cabinets in my garage collecting dust. They are very nice, they are just too short. They are about four to five inches too short.

Now, Tell me what to do to my Classic sidepipes and explain it as "Classic Roadsters sidepipes 101 for dummies". Or tell me what to do with the one from Kustom metal werks. If what you are telling me is true then just fixing the sidepipes should solve alot more of my restriction problems, RIGHT? I can't imagine the car running a whole lot better than it does now. I mean barking the tires in third gear with an auto trans and a small block, wow!

Ferrari Killer
Steve Parks

Double Venom · #24 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 04:15 PM

Steve,

You say you "bark the tires at 100 mph" ! Wow!

May I suggest and demand that you DO NOT modify the exhaust!

I mean, if your barking tires in 3rd, I sure don't want to be responsible for your car doing donuts in third with the modified exhaust!!!!!!!!

DV

P.S. OK, we did this once but it got lost in the shuffle of the new site. Within a week or two we are customizing another set of these. I will take very detailed photographs of the entire process and post it. How's that?

4RE KLR · #25 (**permalink**) 03-01-2002, 08:52 AM

DV,

Well, whew, I will try this again. I have responded twice. This will be the third time and the post never makes it to the board. It must be lost in Never Neverland.

I do have the stainless steel sidepipes that George ? at Kustom Metal works made. I like them alot, but they are way too short. They look stupid as hell on the car. ( Hear that George) I told them they were too short to begin with, but they did nothing about it and I was just to accept them as they were and say nothing. You remenber the Fiat door deal, right? That is another story. Anyway, I have the stainless ones on top of my cabinets collecting dust. Would I be better off trying to get a competant welder to fix these or to work on the set I got from Classic Roadsters? I like the Classic set because 1) they fit, and 2) they are nickle plated.

Which ones would you work on first. I like the looks of the stainless ones better because they look like the ERA stainless steel big block headers. The way the collectors go into the sidepipes. But they are so short. Comaratively speaking if you put those throw away donut tires on a monster truck, that would be about the same look. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Not on my car, at least not without some work first.

Ferrari Killer
Steve Parks

petek · #26 (**permalink**) 03-01-2002, 02:01 PM

DV,

>>Within a week or two we are customizing another set of these. I will take very detailed photographs of the entire process and post it. How's that?<<

Do me a favor DV, post the specifications and source for each of the parts you're going to use. That way I can get everything ordered up and ready to go before you post the construction pictures.

thanks,

petek

4RE KLR · #27 (**permalink**) 03-03-2002, 08:13 AM

Ed

I think I may have found someone to lenghten the stainless sidepipes, if you think that would be the way to go. They are also not at the right angle for the Classic Roadsters headers so they will require some seriuos reworking in order for them to work. It may end up costing more than haveing a new set built out of stainless and done the right way. I am not sure just yet. If I bolt them to the Classic headers ( mind you the problem is NOT with the Classic headers, they are correct) the sidepipes are five inches too short, and they stick out away from the car four inches at the back. Where the Classic set fits up under the edge of the back of the doors, these from Kustom Metal works stick out away from the car four inches. That is four inches to get to the side of the car and about six inches from the bracket that they will need to bolt to. So as you can see either set will require some work.

Ferrari Killer
Steve Parks

Jack21 · #28 (**permalink**) 03-03-2002, 07:34 PM

Well, the new mufflers are in. These are Page Muffler glasspacks with 2 1/2" ID core, 4" case, 30" length. Just like you stated, they're only slightly louder at idle than the CR factory pipes, but a lot deeper rumble. Like the subwoofer got cranked up a few notches. Drove it around a little and the engine does rev easier, and doesn't seem to be running as rich. Get on it and it roars.

Essentially, I cut the turnouts off the CR's and welded them on to the new Pages. Put a 3"OD - 2 1/2"OD neck down nipple in the inlet, and a 3" ID x 4" coupling on the front. Cut the CR collecters 1 1/2" in front of the muffler, and bolted them back in. A little deburring with the die grinder and the Pages slipped right on. One bolt in the back and everything seems to be tight. Haven't done any ceramic coating yet. Gonna drive 'em around for a few days and see how I like them. Page makes 36" long versions of these in 2 1/2", and 2 1/4" core sizes if I want to go a little more mellow, or a resonance develops at cruise.

At least now, I can tweak ignition and carb to get rid of slight miss, and too rich idle.

Double Venom · #29 (**permalink**) 03-03-2002, 07:47 PM

4re..Petek,

Really hard to say about stainless pipes. We've simply never used them.

As for what Jack 21 is using, likewise never used what he is using either.

Guys, we simply found a better system, but we certainly haven't found the best yet!

Petek, I'll post Lucien's number tomorrow so you can order a set of centers if you want to go our way.

DV

petek · #30 (**permalink**) 03-04-2002, 09:45 AM

DV,

That'd be great! Make sure you list the length, etc., so I order up the right stuff. With luck I'll have my car inspected by the Patrol next week and then into the body shop later this month (just as soon as Kustom Metalwerks sends me the roll bar). I'm hoping to have the new pipes welded up and then sent out for coating while my car is in getting painted.

thanks again,
petek

Jack21 · #31 (**permalink**) 03-04-2002, 05:36 PM

Some thoughts on stainless vs ceramic/aluminum coating on exhaust systems.

Stainless doesn't rust, and polished, it looks like chrome plating. Great for bumpers, bumperettes, fastners and other corrosion resistant applications. A little pricey though.

Stainless, however, conducts heat very well, wheras the ceramic aluminum coating reflects it. In an exhaust system, a set of stainless headers, for instance, although they won't rust, will still get hot. Ceramic coated headers (inside and outside)keep the heat inside the exhaust system. I can hold my hand about an inch away from the header with the engine running and not get burned. I have some plastic pieces installed a few inches away from the headers, and have no heat damage. Stainless won't do that for you. Had I known how efficient this coating was, I wouldn't have insulated the footboxes so well.

Sidepipes and mufflers. Obviously one can't ceramic coat the inside of the muffler so isn't rust a potential problem? First off, the heat from your exhaust is still in your exhaust when it enters the collecter and sidepipe (rather than roasting everything inside your engine compartment radiating through the header). The coating reflects heat, so the inside of the mufflers stay hot. Water is less prone to condense inside the muffler and cause rust from the uncoated inside out.

Don · #32 (**permalink**) 03-04-2002, 05:41 PM

I have modified the CR side exhaust system based upon a previous post from DV.

Lucien Donofrio
Arizona Exhaust
4009 North 39th Ave
Phoenix, AZ 85019

602.415.9737

Specs I used:

30" X 4" case
3"ID ends
5" length of ends
Aluminized Steel
Open straight-thru chamber

Price in September 2000 was $25 each plus a total shipping cost from AZ to CT of $25. Quality and service are excellent, still hard to believe the price. Sound is just great !!!

Jack21 · #33 (**permalink**) 03-04-2002, 06:57 PM

Didn't go with a pair of Brother Luciens' creations. He is semi-retired and doesn't take credit card orders. Wanted a money order. Wasn't sure I wanted a 3" core. Page Mufflers in Page AZ has a small ad for PowerPack mufflers in Street Rodder. They have a web site, and take CC orders, prices are competitive with Lucien. Mine cost $28.55 ea + freight. Went with 2 1/2" core, 4" case, 30" length. For up to 400 ci motors, this should be plenty. On one hand, very nice rumble to the car. On the other, inside the car with the top on, and sidewindows in, its like being inside a subwoofer enclosure. Just ordered a pair of 2 1/4" core x 36" length. We'll see if the exhaust softens up a little. Since the mufflers are a slip fit on the collecters, they go on and off easy. May have winter & trip, summer & local use muffler sets. Like DV said, different approaches to getting the same job done. Our hats are all off (and our engines running better) to DV for pointing out this "little flaw". Thanks DV!

petek · #34 (**permalink**) 03-07-2002, 11:23 AM

DV,

I did what I should have done earlier and just did a search here on the forum. The address and phone number I found for Lucien is:
Lucien Donofrio
4009 N. 39th Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85019

602 - 415 - 9737

If I get a minute tonight I'm going to measure up my current mufflers and try to figure out what length, diameter, etc. to order.

(Hope you're over the flu soon!)

petek

CobraEd · #35 (**permalink**) 03-07-2002, 12:11 PM

I was one of the fires guys to do this. Here are things to measure so you dont forget:

-Outside diameter of muffler 4"?.
-Length of muffler 30"?.
-You want 3"id for the muffler.
-Outside diameter of your pipes should be exactly 3" so you want the *inside diameter* of the two nipples to be 3".
-You want the niples to be between 3-5" long.

Ed

petek · #36 (**permalink**) 03-07-2002, 12:59 PM

Thanks Ed!

What I'm hoping to do is cut the side pipes apart next Saturday ... right after I get the front end aligned and the car inspected by the highway patrol. With a little luck I'll be able to have my car painted while I fab up a new set of side pipes and send the pipes out to be coated.

Then my Cobra will be "done" and I can start working on things like a new front suspension, better brakes, etc. :-)

petek

Jack21 · #37 (**permalink**) 03-07-2002, 05:10 PM

By "Done", you mean on the street, right? Cuz these things never seem to get finished. Always something needs tweaking, torquing, or upgrading. Wonder if we should have a contest to see who keeps his on the street the longest in between "upgrades".

petek · #38 (**permalink**) 03-07-2002, 06:00 PM

You've got that right!

"Done" in this case means ready for the DVSF II and the activities at Heartland in July.

petek

BCompy · #39 (**permalink**) 03-11-2002, 02:28 PM

To all concerned and anyone else considering this sidepipe improvement. A slight hiccup in my progress others may avoid. Pipes are completed and my rookie welding lines polished out. Off to the coaters, simple right! Wrong , all asprin are not alike and all coaters are not either. Picked one in Bridgeport ( won't type the name because my hands shake) .
Called and asked if silver finish is available. I had seen examples of their work and it looked superior in shine to others. No problem I am told, I get in my long term rent a racer, drop the hammer and 72 miles door to door at arrest me speed and throw away the key. I no sooner walk in the door and I get an" Uh Oh stripping that chrome off the collector and baloney tip is going to be extra". Ok I am in down town who knows where, "How Much", at least 50 no more than 100". Hey superior work, superior prices. This is baby afterall, sky is the limit, hell the kids ate yesterday ,it's a bad habit they are getting into thinking they should eat every day. Ok I didn't ask about the stripping , I had asked all the others .Airborne ,jethot , shame on me. I say ok, do the job.
Seventy two miles home at a sedate 75, troopers don't even look twice. Next morning while heading to the salt mines phone rings. " Hello" , "Are you the guy that came up here with sucker written on your forehead" " Why yes ,yes I am". " Good because we have some more good news, the stripping will be at least 150 bucks and probably more. "Well how much more?" Don't know whatever it takes". "And another thing. that nice sterling silver finish you want, we can't do that either" Why not? "Our polishing bath would get dirty". It is on the tip of my tongue to point out that baths do get dirty thats why there called BATHS! But they have my precious pipes and the weather is almost getting warm.Back in the rent a racer. I make the first trip look like a yellow flag lap at Daytona.(Is all of Conn. 55mph ?) I am hoping to get stopped this time, I want to bring the cop with me and lock this outfit up for Highway robbery. I still won't use their name but they are right off the Highway.
My pipes are at another coater now who can do that nice dull grey that I know I am going to hate and will aggravate me all summer long. But at least I know the price and I didn't get any speeding tickets getting them there.
Thanks for letting me vent I feel better!

Jack21 · #40 (**permalink**) 03-11-2002, 06:22 PM

BCompy,

Airborne coatings? They did my headers & sidepipes a few years ago. Did a pretty good job. Gotta get my new glasspacks coated, once I decide which set to leave on the car, the 30"x 2 1/2", or 36" x 2 1/4". There's a shop down near me in Fredricksburg, VA that I might try on the mufflers. Should I not go back to Airborne Coatings???

Venting. If you can't vent here, where elce can you go? We all "Feel your pain".

Everybody that owns, or is trying to build a Cobra has the "F**k Me!" inscription on their forehead. A $50 part or service for a '66 Mustang will cost $500 for the exact same part for a '66 Cobra.

So don't tell them what kind of a car it's for, or just say it's for a street rod.

Never tell a guy (or a female) at a parts counter what kind of a car it's for if they insist on looking it up in a computer, or you will never get your part. Just this weekend I needed a set of spark plugs. TFS uses a different plug than any Ford so I ask for the plugs by part #. Doofus has to know what car it's for, and of course has no listing for the car in computer. Worse, I can see the plugs from where I'm standing. With the help of one of the managers, I got my plugs.

I had one of these little Snap Tite plastic Cobra models I'd carry around with me for instances when nothing less descriptive of what I was making/building would work. Came in handy at times (at the welding shop), and backfired at times (front end alignment shop). ( "Ooh, you gotta take that to a shop that does specialty cars, we don't do those here".)

And it's the little sh*t that always seems to take forever, and cost a fortune. Wasn't about to give up putting power steering in my car. Have a GM style pump & late Ford rack, both from AGR. Gotta hook 'em up. Spend $30 for the Chevy end hi side line, another $30 for the Ford side hi side line, and all I need are the ends. Then go to a fork lift truck hydraulics shop to have then ends mated with a short piece of line. Another $50. Then I need th low side return. Aaahhh, that's a special fitting, Dealer only part! Another $50, and again, all I need is the end, and cut off the rest. But, it's in and it works. Ought be a real Hoot if I try putting air conditioning in this thing, Ha, ha.

Getting the car painted was an ordeal I'd care not to repeat. Had the infamous Cobra builder "F**k Me" written on my forehead. Corvette body shop & I set a price. First the guy sits on the car for 2 months without doing anything. I show up with a flatbed to take the car away, and suddenly he gets started. We had agreed on a price, but into the job, he finds "Extras". Long story short, we hit budget and I picked the car up only sanded. The flatbed driver on the way home told me of a shop he uses, and that's where the car got painted.

Speaking of painting. What is so bloody difficult (and expensive)about painting a small, round bodied car with nothing on it to remove, or put back on??? Other than it's a Cobra, and not a Mustang.