Motor mounts........again

Mike Hausner · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 04:59 AM

I replaced the old style motor mount brackets with the new brackets that lower the engine about an inch. I am using the specified motor mount on both sides. I had a devil of a time getting the bolts into the frame mounts on the left side - I bolted the right side down first. When I did finally wrestle the motor to a position to get the bolts in, the trans tailshaft was not centered.

With the right side bolted down and the tailshaft centered, the bolt holes miss the frame holes by about 5/16" to the rear and 1/4" to the left. When I originally installed these MM brackets the motor was too far back. A call to Pete at CR said they were marked wrong, the left bkt was marked "R", etc. I switched them and this is where I'm at now.

So, has anyone else had this problem? Is this the way it's supposed to be, or do I have bad parts?:confused

Double Venom · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 06:00 AM

Mike,
You switched the mounts l to r and r to l and you still have the problem?

Are you using the new motor mounts? I've got a lot of part numbers lined up for you at the shop you might want. I'll be in all day if you want to call again. IF I'm not in for what ever reason, I gave Gary (spraygun) the list.

Sorry I missed your last call.
DV

indy95gt · #3 (**permalink**) 03-17-2002, 02:35 PM

I have the same problem. I posted the same question a couple of months ago and I everyone said the "new" CR motot mounts should fit. So I took pictures of the mounts installed and emailed them to CR. They just sent me 2 more mounts that look the same. I have a 1995 5.0 and a 1992 CR frame. I suspect the pre-94 and 94 on motor mounts are different. I was going to try so 93 mounts next.

Jack21 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-17-2002, 05:07 PM

CR frame & motor mounts, cont'd. CR used MII 302 motor mounts in their cars, and used a frame mount to use them. CR swapped sides on the factory mounts to do this. Why??? I dunno.

The 351W uses the same mount, but sits too high to use a tall intake. CR's response to this was, don't use a tall intake. Use and Edelbrock Performer, not the Performer RPM.

I shortened my frame mounts by 1" and welded them back up. Now 351W with Ede P RPM fits. Had to drop trans mount 1" also or engine sits foreward and sidepipes don't line up.

CR ran into a problem obtaining Ford OEM motor mounts, and were in the process of developing a frame mount to use late Mustang motor mounts when I became involved in this. It was about this time that Energy Suspension introduced their poly mounts for late Mustang engines. Designed a set of frame mounts to use the ES motor mounts, and that's what went into the car. I like the ES mounts because it plants the engine nice & solid. No flopping around like the rubber ones, yet no vibration like solid steel mounts would do. Last I heard, CR found a new source for MII motor mounts and scrapped the late Mustang frame mount development.

I sent the design drawings and cardboard mock ups off to CR before I became aware of Don Scott, and DV, or I wouldn't have wasted my breath (or postage). As far as I know, they went into the trash without so much as an acknowledgement or thanks.

Don, and DV have their own motor and frame mounts for your motor. Since you're running a 302, I have a set of OEM CR frame and motor mounts, and the modified 351 mounts I rewelded still sitting in a box somewhere in the shop. If interested, I'll send you the whole box for $25 + postage.

GaryUnc · #5 (**permalink**) 03-17-2002, 06:13 PM

Jack21
What kind of air cleaner are you using??
GaryUnc

Double Venom · #6 (**permalink**) 03-17-2002, 07:14 PM

Jack,

I feel your pain fella! IF CR's used just half the ideas that their dedicated and knowing customers have come up with they would, without a doubt have the best engineered car on the road.

You know that fancy aluminum Griffin radiator they now supply with the kits..that's actually a design we came up with in our shop. We ended up "signing" off this design to CR's so they could buy them from Griffin. That only took 5 years to convince them! Better radiator, looks cool and drops right in place. AND it was about $100.00 cheaper for them to buy.

The heater / defroster box? Thank you very much! That was a full 4 year project to get them to change. Again, it was cheaper than what they had been buying, 1000% easier to install and it even worked! Plus it didn't take up any passanger foot well area.

Want to talk about the new and improved frame! Now that only took about three years to talk them into that one!

Then there's Don. I have no idea how many hundreds if not thousands of hours he has donated to them! I mean right up to the point of going to the "factory" and doing his own R&D to make the cars better, including the motor mounts!

I know Don and I practically beat them over the head about their door alignments. Not only describing, drawing blue prints and actually showing them how to make it better with less than $1.50 investment per car!

Let's go the steering column route. Chevette's are great columns...25 years ago! Now if you find them the parts are so worn out, reguilding them is almost useless. Can you do an IDIT column like you did? Certainly, pricey but they work. They also don't have all the features in them requiring extra wiring and / or switches.

We came up with our column about 4 years ago. Offered it to them at a ridiculous price, sent them schematics, and even sent them a column to inspect. After much demanding we finally got the column back 9 months later, half assembeled and totaled. They took it apart apparently to see how it was made and couldn't even get it back together again!

Terry Amway, out of Michigan designed a full body mount system for the car. Never saw it, but from what I understand it mounted the body on rubber mounts, much like a new car. I know he spent hundreds of dollars on it, then turned it over to CR's to test. This of course was all done at their prodding. From what I understand all this free R&D went into the same file as your mount research.

Next one that comes to mind is a simple 3x3 piece of 3/16's angle iron +/- 29 7/8's long, welded between the rear frame rails inline with the "jack screws." So cheap, and so effective...for a four point seat belt. Costs in material? Less than $2.50 a car, time for the welder to install - 90 seconds per car, including prep time.

The lists go on and on. Welcome to the club fella. You have some damned good company.

I really feel for guys like Pete and Razz at the factory. They know, and they try but it all falls on deaf ears. I know that Pete got his butt in a ringer more than once trying to force some improvements through. You know you can only ask "Mom and Dad" for something so many times before they send you to your room!

The funny thing about this, "we" still win. You gotta admit, it is one helluva car to begin with! Then with guys like you and Don, and Terry and tons of others who have come up with great ideas, the cars will continue to improve, not only in handleing, and ride, but safety too!

Whew...needed to get that off my chest for some time!
DV

brandonF · #7 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 07:27 AM

DV,

Could you please give me the phone number at your shop. I'd like to talk to you about this motor mount issue. and the problem that i'm having.

Thanks

Brandon

Double Venom · #8 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 10:13 AM

Absolutely,
740-852-5280
DV

dscott · #9 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 11:06 AM

Since the mounts were redesigned I've used 4 sets of them and haven't had any problems. The engine mounts I use are a Napa part# 602-1639. I don't remember the exact application other than a GT convert. I don't know what will happen if other mounts are used. There were quite a few different GT mounts.
Don

Double Venom · #10 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 12:35 PM

And fellas, there you have it! Right from the horses mouth! Don is the one that got the engines lowered and the proper mounts. The only thing you may ask, which is/ are the right and left part numbers? Use this part number for both mounts.

This works so well, we, as we speak are using the GT intake and factory high rise lower unit, a 3/4 inch spacer and a "Hartman" box for the upper on an efi unit and we STILL have at least 3/4's inch clearance to the hood!
Well done Don!
DV

RTTAB · #11 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 12:53 PM

DV -

Did you get the KC magazine??

RTTAB:

Double Venom · #12 (**permalink**) 03-18-2002, 07:49 PM

RTTAB,

Yes I did! I got it today. Very kind and thoughtfull Sir. I do appreciate it!.
DV

brandonF · #13 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 06:51 AM

dscott,

It is interesting that you list one part number for the motor mounts. The late model mustang has unique right and left side mounts, you should have to different numbers. Do you use that mount on both sides??? (napa 602-1639)

I'm starting to ask my self if this car should be call "kit car", I think it should be called a "puzzle car"

Double Venom · #14 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 07:50 AM

Brandon,
See my post directly under Don's! You're question is answered!

DV

dscott · #15 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 08:29 AM

Brandon, The mount is the same on both sides. This is common to most fords. This was done for 2 reasons, to eliminate the chance of getting the mounts on the wrong side, and to ensure that an aftermarket mount is available. The problem with the Ford mounts that were used was availability. The only place to get them was through Ford and they have been discontinued. A common mount was chosen that allowed the engine to be dropped and was available through a national parts house. Sorry about the confusion.
Don

brandonF · #16 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 10:20 AM

Dscott, DV,

Thanks for clearing up my confusion. Now the question is: If these new mounts lower the engine 3/4 of an inch, What about the trans mount? What do you use for a trans mount? The trans needs to be lowered that same 3/4 of an inch. I think that the angles on the drive shaft are bad enough without making it worse by lowering the engine and not the trans?? sorry if I'm Being a pain in the A$$ but I feel these are important questions?

Thanks,

Brandon

dscott · #17 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 12:26 PM

Brandon, The trans mount I use is a Napa # 602-1334. If the angle seems too high you can lower the trans crossmember by using spacers between the frame and crossmember. This is the way they lower the trans tailshaft on the big block cars since the engine sits lower. I don't normally use any spacers and the alignment is ok. Using the Napa mount you may have to file a small amount from the trans where the mount bolts on. Once you try and install the mount you will see what I mean. It's usually less than a 1/32 of an inch. This is on the Tremec 3550 trans.
Don

Double Venom · #18 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 02:18 PM

Brandon,
By all means you are not being a pain in the arse!

To drop the transmission mount lower, if need be, we simply cut four pieces of 5/8's or 1/2" pipe to the desired lenght. (Never did like to see a stack of washers)

Then you can place the mount at your choosen angle. The stock angle you end up with should be well within spec's!

Keep the questions coming. Somebody here will surely have the answer.

DV

Jack21 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-19-2002, 06:45 PM

Used some 1/4" steel stock for trans mount shims. Good way to tell that you have trans & engine at the right level is that the sidepipes are even with the body.

BTW, the OEM trans crossmember needs a bit of reinforcing at the welding shop before installing. It's pretty flimsy and will crack and break, the first time you bounce it. Just making a new one out of 1/4" stock would be an even better idea. Grade 8 hardware loctited in place also a good idea.