Sway Bars

[cobra427mnsi]

Message for DV or anyone else with the experience of removing the sway bar.

DV - I've read in several places that you recommend removing the front and rear sway bars on the CR cobra. I am presently lining the front nose air intake with aluminum and that darn sway bar running right across the front of the radiator looks rather ugly. It would be nice if it wasn't there. I know you recommend removing it. I quess I just need reassurance before I rip it out. Will this action improve handling or make it worse ? You said that your times on the track have improved. Are you talking drag strip, oval track or road course? I have never raced my car, but am contemplating addind a little excitement to my life (by racing) in the near future. Could I remove the front bar but leave the rear bar in ? Or, if one goes they both have to go.

I would like to remove the mustang II power steering rack and pump. The manual Flaming River rack that you recommend looks good.

I would also like to get rid of the Chevette tilt column and go with yours, but the thought of moving the ignition switch etc. seems too daunting.

From the beginning, I have not cared for the steering (handling) of my cobra. It wants to wander a slight amount. I have aligned the front end twice according to the manual's specs but the problem still persists. I think the upper control arms move over time even though I really torque them down after alignment.

Sorry for such a long message, but I have so many question since I recently (2 months) found this site.

You have been very helpful so far . Thanks again for your generosity in sharing with fellow cobra lovers.

Paul

Ps - can hardly wait for DVSP II see ya there

[Back in Black]

I would always have a large front sway bar, and a slightly lighter rear sway bar. Many cobras can be fitted with a front sway bar that is behind the front suspension, from what I have read.
The sway bars are there for a reason, which is to control roll in very hard corners. The key is to use the right size and type bar for your app, and to use poly bushings if at all possible, instead of the rubber type, which are spongy and eventually rot.

[dscott]

Paul, DV is the man when it comes to racing. I don't use the sway bars on any of the cars I build for street use. If you are thinking about any type of road course racing I would leave them on. I've always heard that if you remove one sway bar then they both should come off. If you do your measurements correct you should be able to trim around the sway bar with little effort. The manual rack will be a big plus. I also don't use power steering on the cars because the front is so light to begin with. The Flaming river rack is excellent. The ignition switch is an easy project. If you purchase the column from DV he can also set you up with a very nice and original ignition switch. He will rewire your current harness so it's just a matter of plugging in the new switch. What type of upper control arms do you have (stock, tubular)? The cross bar on the stock arms generally has knurling on the bottom of the shaft to hold it in place. Many of the tubular arms that use an aluminum shaft don't have the knurling so the arms can move. There is a kit to fix this which allows the arms to bolt at a 90 degree angle from stock which will eleiminate the problem.
Don

[Double Venom]

Paul,

A lot to debate here concerning the sway bars. YES, I have found out through profesional testing that a CR's Cobra will turn a much stronger skid pad test without the front bar AND still retaining the rear bar!

Three automotive "working" engineers - have told us the front bar is just too big.

Normally, yes, if you use one, then use both, but there are exceptions to every rule.

The car that was used for testing was my DV, with the stock Viper V-10 motor. If the Front bar is to big for it, I know it's to big for a small block! We were also running Tubular control arms with Carrera coil overs.

You're not destroying anything by removing it! In fact you can just unbolt it from the lower control arms, wire tie it up and run the car without it for a while. Determine if you like or dislike.

Now, about that sloppy steering. Changing the column and eliminating that nylon bushing and muffler extesnsion will help tremendously. The next upgrade which is huge is two Flaming River U-joints and a new splined shaft. By now your steering is getting real serious. Then, if you want to really go the "package" deal, put a new FR rack in! Yes, we are a dealer for FR, but I don't care if you get them through us or not. I do care that you have the best and tightest steering available!

All you have to do to change ignition to the dash is to drill about a 3/4" hole. It will plug directly into CR's harness. Or, if you like the GM key on the side of the column...we do that too.

DV 300 Cobras are NOT enough! We are getting so close!

[aumoore]

Dennis Olthoff covered this subject at the Deep South Cobra Club annual meeting. He recommends (at least on Superformance Cobras) a larger sway bar on the rear than on the front with somewhat soft springs. Sway bars allow you to run softer springs and still keep body roll to a minimum. This gives a more compliant ride over bumps and helps keep all 4 wheels/tires planted.

Dennis invited a Bilstein Shock Rep and I now want new shocks.


If you want to drag race disconnect the front sway bars to allow better weight transfer.

[Jack21]

Please keep this in perspective. DV & Don Scott do this professionally. They've built hundreds of cars. I've built one, love it, and drive it nearly every day. My opinion is based on one running example.

Sway bars. Sway bars allow use of softer springs for better ride, yet control body roll in corners. I have both CR front and rear sway bars installed. The car corners like it's on rails, and flat as a pancake in so doing. Notch the cowl insert for sway bar clearance.

Power steering. Back in the days of 165 and 185 size tires on these cars, manual steering worked fine. With 235 and 245 size sticky radials, you might miss the power steering. Loss of road feel on the highway seems to be the biggest complaint with power steering.

I used a rebuilt late Mustang power rack, standard ratio, with high effort valving from AGR. Summit now sells them. The passenger side rack mount on the CR is slotted which allows it to fit. Installed it with offset rack bushings to place the rack centerline where the MII rack centerline was. At this point, either the Ford, or Saginaw (GM) will work. AGR recommended the Saginaw as a better pump, which they also rebuild (and Summit sells). Ford vans and pickups use Saginaw PS pumps. My pump brackets came off a Ford pickup. Last, RB's Antique Automotive sells a low pressure relief valve for Saginaw PS pumps which lightens the assist provided. $39.95. It all works very well. No upper body workout when parking, and good road feel on the highway.

Alignment wise, use '76 - '78 MII spec's (alignment shops have this in their computer) except you want as close to 4 deg caster as you can get. And 6 deg if you have enough adjustment (mine didn't). This came from Don Vancleve before he left CR. Ford definately didn't have the brightest idea when it designed the way the alignment holds into position with the MII. I'm still wrestling with this one.

Who makes/sells your 90 deg upper control arm brackets?

Steering slop. No matter how tight you make the hole where the steering column goes through the firewall, it will always have some movement - slop. I used a 2" muffler clamp sideways on the column, and bolted it through the firewall by the firewall harness. No slop - none.

Get DV's steering column. Solves all the problems, and wiring harnesses are already built in. I struggled with an Ididit before finding out DV made these.

[Double Venom]

Jack,
Just so you know..I learn something from everyone of you guys, and I know Don does too! Hell, I can't take credit for 80% of the stuff I post here! Maybe we've refined some ideas, maybe even modified them a little, but it's all from the entire CR's famly!

My columns, only supported by the stock straps are tight, very tight, but...if you put some effort into moving the wheel around, you can still get a little wobble where they go through the firewall.

You have just given me a great idea that I have been wrestling with for years. We make a very simple bracket that mounts to the column and then to the firewall, but it looks homemade and I don't like it, even though it totally eliminates wobble. Now I know exactly what to have made up!

I'll keep you posted, I'm headed to the drawing board...litterally!

DV -- 300 Cobras are NOT enough! Register - you're running out of time!

P.s. When we were doing the skid pad testing, with both sway bars, at .78 G's the sidepipes were less than a 1/2" off the ground. Now, pulling an honest 1.27 G's the lean is noticeable, but barely!

[Jack21]

Like my 2" muffler clamp on the steering column trick, eh? Cheap, and it works. You need to use the whole clamp, U bolt, and lower bracket. I needed an additional 1/8" shim under the lower bracket. If I were designing one on the column, I'd run the bolts through the front of the firewall instead of the side.

Also installed a modified late Mustang clutch quadrant that attaches to the side of the CR upper clutch pedal arm. Looks like a Nautilus machine cam that the clutch cable hooks onto. Got the BBK late Mustang adjustable clutch cable (teflon coated, no friction) and firewall adjuster. Took measurements off the OEM MII plastic POS and made an aluminum puck that bolts to the stock location on the firewall, and holds the BBK firewall cable adjuster in place. Used a rubber gasket between the puck and firewall so it wouldn't crack the fiberglass. Anyway, the initial clutch setting is made from the clutch fork. After that, it can be adjusted by turning the knob on the firewall adjuster behind the brake booster.

The only thing I didn't do was convert the clutch pedal bushings to ball bearings. That will be a retrofit, as it's already starting to squeak.

Clutch works so smoothly I can depress the pedal with my hand.

Think I sent you shots of this once.

OK, I showed you mine, you show me yours. Where do you get your 90 deg upper control arm brackets from?