Oil Heater/Cooler????

coosawjack · #1 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 04:31 AM

I have a Griffin aluminum radiator in my CR with 408W stroker. It is set up for an automatic in that it has the trans oil cooler on the passenger side.

Now, would it make sense to run engine oil through this "cooler" to heat it faster (less dist. and cam gear wear) and cool it when running hard (coolant runs 185*-195* at the hottest)

I've read that keeping mineral oil below 230* is good and thought this set-up might accomplish that easily without using an external oil cooler (some keep oil too cool)??? It may be that the additional oil heat would cause the engine to run hotter??

Comments & Ideas??

Thanks,
Jack???

wilf leek · #2 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 06:51 AM

Jack - I am sure others will correct me if I am wrong (very likely), but I do not believe that the oil cooling tubes in the radiator will stand up to the pressure of your engine oil - they were designed for much lower pressure trans oil.

I think you can get water coolers for the oil system that screw in under the oil filter - like a water cooled/heated sandwich plate. Also in the UK I know for sure that there is a range of purpose designed water to oil coolers, called "laminova" or somesuch, try looking on www.demon-tweeks.com or www.thinkauto.co.uk

HTH

Wilf

dewulfmd · #3 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 06:56 AM

Jack,

Many truck/tractor and industrial engines use water-type oil coolers. These are usually seperate units (not in the radaitor) and have some kind of internal oil thermostat.

However, if the radiator cooler is good for an automatic transmission, it might be OK for engine oil.

Things to consider:
1) Capacity - Is the radaitor cooler large enough to do any good? Air-type oil coolers operate with larger differential temperatures between engine oil and ambient air temps.
2) The radaitor temperature is not directly regulated. The engine's thermostat maintains the engine's temperature only. At times, the radaitor temperature may be significantly different (ie.. during engine warmup - very little coolant circulating through the radaitor).
3) Is the radaitor cooler and lines running to it able to withstand engine oil pressures?
4) Will the radaitor cooler clog or corrode with "dirtier" engine oil flowing through it?

There seems to be allot of unknowns...

Mike D.

coosawjack · #4 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 07:42 AM

Thanks Guys....

All of that makes sense and I never even thought about contamination (dirty oil) and pressure!!

Guess I'll scratch the whole idea......It would probably be done already if it would work!!??

Thanks Again,
Jack

dscott · #5 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 08:16 AM

Jack, Actually the trans has more pressure than the oil. Most trannys can run up to 300 psi in the lines. NHRA has banned the use of rubber lines and clamps because of the pressures and possibility of rupture. The trans cooler in the radiator is just a tube that runs between the fittings. Not very efficient. Mike is right about the temps in the radiator. Not the same as engine temp.
Don

Back in Black · #6 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 09:31 AM

With a thermostat...that way it only functions when the oil hits 180 or 190 F

coosawjack · #7 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 09:49 AM

So Don.....

The trans oil cooler will stand the pressure but it won't help cooling or heating of the engine oil??

How hot does automatic trans fluid get?? It must get pretty hot for the radiator to cool it any and how much heat does it add to the engine???

Sounds like I opened a can of worms mas grande!!!!

Thanks,
Jack

dscott · #8 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 10:06 AM

The trans fluid can get extremely hot depending on the type of torque converter. I don't think the radiator cooler works very well to help cool as much as the length of the lines. Most heavy duty trucks have an external trans cooler for that purpose. Under load the fluid gets too hot for the radiator to help much. If you think about it almost all trailer mfgs tell you to add a cooler to avoid problems. With the engine oil you want to get the temp up as soon as possible. BinB is right, a thermostat would be the best. It allows the oil to heat up with the engine and then open at a given temp.
Don

Mr.Fixit · #9 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 10:24 AM

You can also use an air conditioning condenser if you have fittings heliarced to it then pressure test it.

Sizzler · #10 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 11:36 AM

Wouldn't a dry sump tank work here?

Get a good one and you should be able to get it with heaters built into it.

Basically then it works like a home hot water heater...large volume of liquid (oil in your case) is stored in a tank with heating elements built in to keep it at a desired temperature.

You don't necessarily need a dry sump system to make use of the remote tank, but that might be nice too.

The tank would definitely require more room under the hood than just the loop through the bottom of the radiator takes.

scottj · #11 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 12:13 PM

Jack,

You have the right idea but I would call Griffin and find out if you have a "stock-type" trans cooler or a true heat-exchanger. With a true heat-exchanger, under extreme racing conditions you might see a 5-10 deg increase in coolant temps. Under those conditions I run 190-200 on water and 230 on oil.
The nice thing about it is its simplicity, you don't need a thermostat because it won't try to cool the oil below the coolant temp. When the water is warmer than the oil, it will be heating the oil. It won't clog since the "dirty oil" had to pass thru .002-.003 bearing clearances too. As said above, pressure is not a problem.
Your idea is sound and widely used. Really the only question is what do you actually have. If you know it to be a "stock-type" coiled tube or something similar, it's pretty much worthless as a heat exchanger.

Scott

scottj · #12 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 12:17 PM

Sizzler,

Won't work with a stock oil pump; no way to circulate the oil thru the tank, but you could put a heater on or in the oil pan.

Jack21 · #13 (**permalink**) 11-21-2002, 06:09 PM

$0.02

Griffin rad not specific for AT use. Cap inlet & outlet of AT cooler for MT use.

Would not attempt using rad AT cooler for engine oil. Grossly insuffucuent flow for engine oil. Use an engine oil cooler instead.

Do you need an engine oil cooler at all? The original 427 FE's under racing conditions (track surface temp 110 - 125 deg in the summer) using oils available 35 years ago makes sense. Does the oil in your stroker 351 (assuming use of a road racing 8 or 9 qt oil pan) and synthetic oil get too hot? First, try a heat dissipating polymer coating on your oil pan (keep it simple). If that doesn't do it, use a thermostat controlled engine oil cooler.